Y
yoggy
Guest
I`ll be fishing for Zander in a couple of weeks in a very large lake.As you know most Zander will drop a bait at the slightest resistance.Can anyone recommend any lightweight bobbins i can use?.
C
Chris Bishop
Guest
Weighted drop-off, front alarm, rod tips splayed at an angle so you can see the first knocks.
A
Andy Doughty
Guest
Dont beleive the slightest resistance theory one little bit, its the change in resistance that does it. I will post again this evening and expand on this, kids are going mental............
D
David Marrs
Guest
Hi Yoggy, Chaps,
I wouldn't use a drop off on a lake whilst fishing for Zander, in my experience the two just don't go together.
I used to make my own bobbins with ping pong balls and a kirby hair grip. If you use braid to tie em up, you can add a couple of swan shot to weight em up a bit.
You'll find that there is a fair chance that the only indication you'll receive will be the bobbin rising slightly!
Kind regards,
Dave
I wouldn't use a drop off on a lake whilst fishing for Zander, in my experience the two just don't go together.
I used to make my own bobbins with ping pong balls and a kirby hair grip. If you use braid to tie em up, you can add a couple of swan shot to weight em up a bit.
You'll find that there is a fair chance that the only indication you'll receive will be the bobbin rising slightly!
Kind regards,
Dave
C
Chris Bishop
Guest
Not sure. Use a weighted one and it's sensitive, in that get the clip right and it will pull out and that's it - no resistance - as soon as you get a pull.
It will also show a drop back and keep the line tight.
Light bobbins are fine for fishing a couple of rod lengths out, how do you make sure you're fishing tight at any distance without weighting them, which causes more resistance than a drop-off which is off your line as soon as a fish has unclipped you.
If your stillwater is quite large and you have to fish a fair way out - reading between the lines - you're going to struggle to keep the line tight if it's calm and any wind will have your bobbin creeping and giving false indications.
They're also hopeless for using lives.
It will also show a drop back and keep the line tight.
Light bobbins are fine for fishing a couple of rod lengths out, how do you make sure you're fishing tight at any distance without weighting them, which causes more resistance than a drop-off which is off your line as soon as a fish has unclipped you.
If your stillwater is quite large and you have to fish a fair way out - reading between the lines - you're going to struggle to keep the line tight if it's calm and any wind will have your bobbin creeping and giving false indications.
They're also hopeless for using lives.
D
David Marrs
Guest
'Drop Offs' on stillwaters just resulted in dropped runs for my mates and I. Fair one, I've never used lives at either venue but with deads, I used to combine a heavy leger weight with a low resistance ring and either a bobbin or indeed a 'springer'type indicator, having the line clipped up just never seemed to work. I have fished Lives on the Fen Drains/Rivers with springer indicators and they work fine.
I dunno what it is, in theory drop-offs should work the same on stillwaters as they do on the drains/rivers however it is my experience that they dont. I dont think stillwater Zeds are as prone to giving the confident runs you often get on running waters. Generally the take is a much more subtle affair.
Kind regards,
Dave
I dunno what it is, in theory drop-offs should work the same on stillwaters as they do on the drains/rivers however it is my experience that they dont. I dont think stillwater Zeds are as prone to giving the confident runs you often get on running waters. Generally the take is a much more subtle affair.
Kind regards,
Dave
C
Chris Bishop
Guest
Can't see whay it should any different, probably one of those things where there's no right answer as much as using what you're happy with.
Y
yoggy
Guest
The lake in question,is fed by a well known river.Obviously because of the good supply of "silver" fish the Zander are there to stay.One angler whom i spoke to told me to use a lightweight bobbin,another whom i spotted was using "drop offs"!!
Hence my confusion!!.
Also this is my 1st ever "stillwater" predator trip.
All of my predator fishing over the last 20 years has been done soley on my local Fen drains,where a flick is just needed to get the bait out,but this lake is bloody big.So this is a completely new experience.
Hence my confusion!!.
Also this is my 1st ever "stillwater" predator trip.
All of my predator fishing over the last 20 years has been done soley on my local Fen drains,where a flick is just needed to get the bait out,but this lake is bloody big.So this is a completely new experience.
D
David Marrs
Guest
I wouldn't worry too much Yoggy, to concur with what Chris said, you're probably better off having a bash and then sticking with what makes you happy mate.
Whatever happens matey, good luck!!!
Whatever happens matey, good luck!!!
Graham Daubney 2
New member
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2004
- Messages
- 0
- Reaction score
- 0
Many times I've hit a take that's not even taken the line out of the clip, just goes up to the butt ring and stays there. some good fish amongst them. I just try and balance the indication to the conditions, leaving a slight drop for the fish to tighten up to.
captain carrott
Senior Member
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2003
- Messages
- 12,698
- Reaction score
- 4
now i'm going to sound like a heretic here but try a fox adjusta hanger on the back rod rest clipped up under the reel, you'll have to lengthen the cord to do this and clip it down the rod rest, i use some old dacron, you can ajdust the cip so it only just holds the line so as soon as something gives it a tug it will drop off,
if you get a drop back it's heavy so it will show it well.
if you get a drop back it's heavy so it will show it well.
A
Andy Doughty
Guest
Zander and pike dont feed in the same way. They have different shaped mouthes and different styles of teeth. Pike grab prey across the flanks and then turn it before swallowing. Zeds have got the large 'fangs' that we all love, but what are they for? How do they actually feed?
My theory is that they take prey fish in stages. The first attack is designed to disable the prey and prevent it from escaping. The mouth shape is different from a pikes in that it is narrower and prey fish could wriggle out a lot easier than from a pikes broad mouth. Hence the need to disable prey before picking it up to eat it. The pick up is second part of the take.
How many times have you crashed out of a bivvy and struck into thin air? Probably as many times as me, but after switching to braid I could 'feel' what was going on.
After the initial attack, the bobbin or drop off goes (BLEEEEEEEEP!), a zander cant stop itself all that quickly after the attack and over shoots the bait, turns round and watches as the prey fish it has just knobbled goes flying off into the dark. I think that the angler pulls his bait away from more zander than you give credit for. Thats why takes on deadbaits are more 'finiky'. They dont need to disable an already dead fish.
Fishing with braid allows me to feel down the the lead and bait, sense that the live bait is now dead, and also feel the pick up of the zander, and nail it.
My night time run-routine is now, out of bivvy asap, pick up rod, wind down to lead gently, feel for the bite and then whack it. Not the normal, rush out, rod up, strike, complain about resistance shy zander.
My theory is that they take prey fish in stages. The first attack is designed to disable the prey and prevent it from escaping. The mouth shape is different from a pikes in that it is narrower and prey fish could wriggle out a lot easier than from a pikes broad mouth. Hence the need to disable prey before picking it up to eat it. The pick up is second part of the take.
How many times have you crashed out of a bivvy and struck into thin air? Probably as many times as me, but after switching to braid I could 'feel' what was going on.
After the initial attack, the bobbin or drop off goes (BLEEEEEEEEP!), a zander cant stop itself all that quickly after the attack and over shoots the bait, turns round and watches as the prey fish it has just knobbled goes flying off into the dark. I think that the angler pulls his bait away from more zander than you give credit for. Thats why takes on deadbaits are more 'finiky'. They dont need to disable an already dead fish.
Fishing with braid allows me to feel down the the lead and bait, sense that the live bait is now dead, and also feel the pick up of the zander, and nail it.
My night time run-routine is now, out of bivvy asap, pick up rod, wind down to lead gently, feel for the bite and then whack it. Not the normal, rush out, rod up, strike, complain about resistance shy zander.
D
David Marrs
Guest
''How many times have you crashed out of a bivvy and struck into thin air?''
Not too many times Andy mate but I do generally wait for the alarm to go off first
Not too many times Andy mate but I do generally wait for the alarm to go off first
D
David Marrs
Guest
When night fishing mate I tend to dive out of the bivvy and have a very quick feel of the line whilst tightening up, as soon as I feel 'knocking' as the fish takes line, I whack it. I have to say mate, when night fishing I don't seem to miss that many runs at all. I don't tend to kick the ass out of livebait size or anything like that, perhaps this helps contribute to a decent hooking rate?
Kind regards,
Davester
Kind regards,
Davester
A
Andy Doughty
Guest
"Not too many times Andy mate but I do generally wait for the alarm to go off first "
Lol, well done Disco, just realised what I am doing wrong....
"Lol, well done Disco, just realised what I am doing wrong....
Y
yoggy
Guest
Thanks chaps,agree with your sentiments,for the last 20 years i`ve been stuck in my ways.I find its hard to change from a proven method.But as i said this is a different ball game from the small drains i fish!.I`m also going to use "power-pro" braid for the first time instead of my usual mono.
I`m sure this will be a real shocker as well!!
Its no good i must move with the times!!!!
I`m sure this will be a real shocker as well!!
Its no good i must move with the times!!!!
D
David Marrs
Guest
lol Andy, I couldn't resist mate
I fish 98% of my lives on a sunken 'helicopter' rig. I often imagine a good Zander sat watching the bait, mystified as its prey just doesn't swim off. I wonder what they make of that? Certainly the bait is going to wriggle and make a nuisance of itself, yet it just can't swim away!
I've witnessed Pike feeding many times in clear water and I wonder if a decent Zander might ponder on whether or not to take the bait. I doubt this would happen with the smaller school fish, if only due to the competition within the pack.
Any thoughts?
I fish 98% of my lives on a sunken 'helicopter' rig. I often imagine a good Zander sat watching the bait, mystified as its prey just doesn't swim off. I wonder what they make of that? Certainly the bait is going to wriggle and make a nuisance of itself, yet it just can't swim away!
I've witnessed Pike feeding many times in clear water and I wonder if a decent Zander might ponder on whether or not to take the bait. I doubt this would happen with the smaller school fish, if only due to the competition within the pack.
Any thoughts?
Coxy
Well-known member
Hi Yoggy, dropped takes & the whole resistance thing is a subject thats bugged me for years.
I've often been left wondering if it's the weighted drop off causing a sudden tug or resistance caused by a baitrunner set a little to tite.
I tend to think along the same lines as Andy Doughty, looking more at the way zander feed, of course this is only a theory for me as these dropped takes could be eels or liners.
I target both pike & zander with the conventional rear drop offs & front mounted alarms & like Dave i feel the line for tell tale signes.
On a larger pit i personaly would try a front mounted indicator with enough weight to show drop backs with a lightly set baitrunner if dropped takes become a problem.
I've often been left wondering if it's the weighted drop off causing a sudden tug or resistance caused by a baitrunner set a little to tite.
I tend to think along the same lines as Andy Doughty, looking more at the way zander feed, of course this is only a theory for me as these dropped takes could be eels or liners.
I target both pike & zander with the conventional rear drop offs & front mounted alarms & like Dave i feel the line for tell tale signes.
On a larger pit i personaly would try a front mounted indicator with enough weight to show drop backs with a lightly set baitrunner if dropped takes become a problem.
C
Chris Bishop
Guest
Reading between the lines (again) I think Yoggy's on about having to fish a fair way out to a feature with legered deads.
I used to fish off the baitrunners all the time, still do on rivers, float fishing and off boats.
No need on a stillwater, where the weight of the drop-off helps you tighten down to the lead.
The heavier the drop-off (up to a point...) the more sensitive, as long as you use one with an adjustable ball clip which doesn't grip the line, especially using braid.
A take either pings the line out of the clip or gives you a drop-back as long as the head of the drop-off's heavy enough to keep the line tight.
I used to fish off the baitrunners all the time, still do on rivers, float fishing and off boats.
No need on a stillwater, where the weight of the drop-off helps you tighten down to the lead.
The heavier the drop-off (up to a point...) the more sensitive, as long as you use one with an adjustable ball clip which doesn't grip the line, especially using braid.
A take either pings the line out of the clip or gives you a drop-back as long as the head of the drop-off's heavy enough to keep the line tight.
Y
yoggy
Guest
Correct Chris,according to information that i have gathered i hope to be fishing out at around 70 yards to a deep channel.
So basically a standard carp set up will be ok will it?
So basically a standard carp set up will be ok will it?