Remains of the Clay

I don't want to wreck the important SAA thread by going off on a tangent.

I suggested Ron Clay should do a sequel to the Walker - Stone letters book he's been bigging up on here.

I suppose nowadays had Walkler and Stone been about, they'd probably be on here with the rest of us oiks, so we wouldn't need a book.

Instead we have a few elder statesmen, whose ranks include Ron.

Will The Clay Threads or something similar come out one day as a Ltd edition cloth-bound hardback..?

Will people look back on things like this in years to come and view them with the same authority..?

Or will we dismiss such writings as the ramblimgs of a mad old man?


Seriously, if Ron were to write a book you could put me down for a signed copy, as long as SA wasn't mentioned;-)

What say you Ron, 2b or not 2b?

Me too Bob and one from Monk as well.

Chris, how many of us have downloaded photo's onto our p.c's that will never be printed?
For me, a book is like a photo album, it's no good stored on your hard drive!

The whole subject's quite interesting when you think about it.

Walker and Stone wrote each other letters.

So presumably developing any sort of idea took months and was subject to the vagaries of the Royal Mail.

I've no doubt some of things they corresponded about helped bring specimen hunting as it was then known out of the dark ages.

Nowadays, we debate all kinds of stuff by e-mail/web forums.

It's a lot quicker, are the advances which result any more significant, what will people think 20 or 30 years down the line.

What about some of the discussions the carp guys have on rigs on here.

The rise of carbelling. Or identifying true roach...?

I'll bring up a point here that Chris mentioned.

If the likes of Walker, Stone and a few others had been alive today, they would certainly have been active on FM.

However, I have heard on a few occasions that some high profile anglers in this country would not lower themselves to contribute to websites or even to debate subjects on forums. I will not mention names here but any of you reading this will know who you are!

I have in my hand a copy of a letter from a person who's backside not one of you ultra high profile types of today have the qualifications to even kiss. It is a 5 page letter written in beautiful handwriting, illustrated with a few exquisitly drawn diagrams. It was done as a request for information and is typical of one of thousands of letters that he wrote, the majority being sent to ordinary anglers.

The letter is signed off:






"Best wishes

****.

Only 62 more letters to write!"




Do I need to add more?

Yeah! a few more chapters and you might have a book! ;-)

C'mon Ron stop being selfish, share it with us.

;-)

Ron,

Can I bat that back and ask whether you think ideas evolve more quickly now, thanks to the advent of the web.

Or did the opportunity to consider and compose letters before sending them mean what was said had far more gravitas..?

Sorry, I've now got quite interested in this.

This website has put a tremendous amount of angling information into the public domain. More so than many angling publications I would dare to add. It also enables many anglers of different persuations to communicate with each other by the written word - from beginners to seasoned anglers.

Yes Chris, I think that many ideas evolve very quickly on FM. I also know that a great many anglers who read FM are now much more successful fishermen.

I know that I have benefitted - tremendously in the past few years.

Not only that, but FM has been the catalyst for some very real and lasting friendships. There are those Luddites who have, and still are, sniping at websites such as this. Let them snipe is what I say, they really don't know what they are missing.

Another thing about forums is that perhaps the old art of letter writing might be coming back. One thing that does worry me however is that many young anglers - I have met a few, are a little scared of contributing to the odd thread - with the exception of Christian of course. That might be an indictment at the way English is taught in schools these days.

Let's face it, text language does not work too well on websites.

Well, for what its worth, I prefer to read these forums than just about any current angling publications - Waterlog excepted. That is not to say I don't appreciate good angling books; far from it. But I generally read older angling books, apart from those written by Yates, Gierach or Patterson.

As a means of sharing information the forum is certainly much quicker than anything available to earlier generations, which means it is also possible to garner opinion on matters of current import and, if necessary, represent those opinions. If there is a downside it is that this same immediacy can result in contributions which would have benefitted from a little more thought - not necessarily to content, but to the way in which it is expressed.

Sadly, it is also open to the posting of 'in-jokes' and quick 'one-liners' which would be better kept as private emails. Very often they mean nothing to the general readership and only serve to break up the thread.

As to the reluctance of younger readers to contribute, well how young is young? Under 20? An age group which, historically, has never been the most prodigious of letter writers - with a few notable exceptions of course. It is more likely that they just feel too intimidated to put their thoughts down, which is a shame, as I suspect they could make some useful contributions. Whether this is partly down to a perception that their English is not good enough I wouldn't care to say; to them I do say this: nor is much of what is written by so-called professional journalists, so let's hear from you!

I suspect that the reason we dont get many youngsters posting is a reflection of the fact that less and less youngsters are fishing.

Nigel
im not sure about that really, ive never seen one other person my age at my club waters but recently ive been going to my local commercial.
the place probably had just as many teenagers as adults there i couldnt believe the amount of us there really are (there was probably 15 odd people in my age group there) !
but Nigel i can see where your coming from on youngsters on here. at first i thought o er should i be posting on the internet :S and i would say im a confident teenager. so i can imagine how a little more shy person could think about posting!
Ron
I also know that a great many anglers who read FM are now much more successful fishermen.
i for one could say im in that group, over the past year or so ive learnt much more than i ever would from mags and books. on here information is available quickly and easily and if you want to know something you can just ask. and you also get alot of experianced anglers respond very quickly. then theres the articles to look back on etc ...

Chris/Bob
a book made out of the writings on here would be emense, i for one would buy 2 copies (1 incase i lost it) you'd get alot of witty fishing disscussion along with alot of windups and humor. give it 15 years and it would make an even better read, looking back on what our fishing thoughts and ideas where back then.

Good on you Christian for posting and reading all this stuff,and making your contribution to all the debates. I wouldn't have had the bottle at your age. In my era the word of adults was final and you never challenged it. Keep it up.

i for one would buy 2 copies (1 incase i lost it

lol

You obviously find you get plenty out of it in terms of people giving advice when you ask and enjoying a bit of the banter.

So why don't we get more youngsters posting on here..?

Chris, hate to sound like the old fart I probably am, but it may have something to do with the numbers of young anglers out there. I well remember my secondary school days. I was one of 16 anglers in my year alone, and there were other boys in the years above and below me who fished, as we tended to take the young pups under our wing on outings to the canal and river. Two good friends of mine whose boys attend quite seperate High Schools tell me their lads are the sole anglers in their year, and only took it up because their respective Fathers fish and were able to mentor them. Sadly, there are too many PC teachers out there reluctant to encourage angling-though Eddie C is not one of them! Eddie and I, plus some other NFA coaches, once took 40 kids from his school in Chester fishing in February. No danger of them not having the opportunity to dangle a line or being told fish feel pain etc etc. Well in Eddie!

The interesting thing about the USA is that lots and lots of young people fish. Not only that but lots of young people also shoot.

From President Bush through to congressmen, Americans are encouraged to take up field sports.

A weekend's fishing is often a father/son partnership, most of it in a boat of course. Vast numbers of American anglers have their own boat which they tow behind a vehicle complete with camping gear. Come the weekend all they have to do is hitch up and away they go.

Of course one must understand that the average American is much wealthier in terms of disposable income than the cash strapped Brit. That country is not the leader of the first world for nothing.

Does the "average American" calculation, include all those millions living in poverty in this country that is "leader of the first world", Ron?

According to the US Census Bureau, 35.9 million people live below the poverty line in America

Bit of a stereotype Ron. Agreed some see time spent fishing as part of their wider American outdoor dream, but I suspect Fred's right and the ones who do are a minority.

Don't confuse ideology with achievement. Whether or not few, some, many or even most Americans actually own a boat and can thus 'head for the hills' each weekend is not the point. Enjoying the great outdoors through fishing, shooting or camping is part of their culture. Granted, inner city slum dwellers will have little opportunity to express it - and many may not wish to anyway, having far more immediate problems to deal with - but the educational system, from junior school through to college, is geared towards encouraging participation in such activities. Summer camps are still a major part of growing up there.

Compare that with the UK where, should a child develop an interest in fishing or nature, they will have precious little encouragement from their school. Fishing is not only ignored but, in some cases, postively discouraged. Nature studies are now more like an excercise in health and safety than an adventure. I speak from experience here; in the early nineties I did some voluntary work at an environmental education centre, looking after a three acre site. This was established in the early 1970's to supplement local schoolchildren's regular curriculum and teach them about the environment around them. In those days my job involved keeping the grass paths cut, maintaining (and constructing) ponds for 'dipping', hedge laying, cultivating a wild flower meadow to encourage insects and general maintenance. Oh yes, and cleaning out the donkeys. Unpleasant job, but an excellent source of worms!

Four or five years after I stopped working there (due to studying full time at college) I took a stroll around the site. They obviously did not need anyone to carry on my work, as the paths were all tarmac, the ponds filled in, the donkeys gone and any rogue nettles and brambles sprayed, presumably to avoid scratching or stinging visitors. Someone at the local authority had decided that the site presented too much risk. Shortly after this it closed down altogether, public funding being withdrawn completely, and finance becoming impossible to obtain through private sources.

There is a lesson here: if we end up as grumpy old men bemoaning the fact that the latest generation is interested in nothing that isn't commercially produced, highly fashionable and completely disposable, we'll have no-one to blame but ourselves.

I think you will find that the bigger percentage of those people living in the USA below the poverty line Fred are illegal immigrants. The reasons they are there are known to many, and it's not PC to mention those reasons. But I will dwell on this subject no more.

My son went on numerous summer camps in SA with his primary and high school. He learned bushcraft and survival.

There was recently a programme on TV called "Brat Camp".

I laughed like hell at the typical pommie who cannot take a bit of discipline nor a bit of hardship in the wilderness.

My son would have walked these camps without any problem at all.

When I was their age I would have loved to have spent time in a wilderness area learning how to survive. Even today, at my age, I reckon I could show all you young poms a thing or two.