Is it right?

sagalout · Apr 24, 2011

On a local lake there is a swim that has a reed lined bay to the right. A certain angler fishes this swim a lot, presenting bread on the surface. When a carp takes the bait the angler runs along the bank dragging the carp behind. If he is not quick enough the fish invariably snags and he then has to pull for a break.

The running long the bank does not seem to be correct to me. I think (always my down fall) that in the normal course of playing a fish, the tackle is taking a lot of the pressure, whereas running along the bank is putting all the pressure on the fish. Or is this no different from hook and hold tactics?

So, what do you all think? Is it a problem? If so do I talk to a bailiff, or do I talk to the bloke direct? Should I just mind my own business?

Ray Daywalker Clarke · Apr 24, 2011

sagalout said:
On a local lake there is a swim that has a reed lined bay to the right. A certain angler fishes this swim a lot, presenting bread on the surface. When a carp takes the bait the angler runs along the bank dragging the carp behind. If he is not quick enough the fish invariably snags and he then has to pull for a break.

The running long the bank does not seem to be correct to me. I think (always my down fall) that in the normal course of playing a fish, the tackle is taking a lot of the pressure, whereas running along the bank is putting all the pressure on the fish. Or is this no different from hook and hold tactics?

So, what do you all think? Is it a problem? If so do I talk to a bailiff, or do I talk to the bloke direct? Should I just mind my own business?

Complete Madness the guy needs his head testing, talk to the bailiff and make sure the committee know what is going on also.

S-Kippy · Apr 24, 2011

Hard to say without seeing it but it doesn't sound quite right to me.Personaly I dont think its ethical to put a bait to a fish where you dont have a good chance of getting them out though quite where you draw the line is open to debate. If I think the odds are in the fishes favour then I wont cast.

Hit and hold is one thing...keelhauling quite another.

William Pastuszka · Apr 24, 2011

No it ain't right, it's damn right stupid, if the angler in question had any sense about him, he'd at least carry his landing net along there with him preventing the need to break away from the tethered/snagged up fish.

It's really upto yourself whether or not you report this to the fishery bailiff, I would because not only is the guy causing damage to the fish stocks, discarded snagged up/tethered terminal tackle causes all sorts of problems to other wild life, it's then only the fishery & other anglers that suffers in the end because of those stupid tactics.

Have always considered when fishing any spot, if I cannot get in there to land any caught fish not to bother with that spot.

Phil Hatton 2 · Apr 24, 2011

I'm a bailiff with my club and as such I would certainly be having a chat if I witnessed such a display of poor angling.

The bad one · Apr 25, 2011

Fish at any price.

If I caught anybody doing that in my club, his card's gone and the committee would make the decision whether he got it back or not.
Bit like the anglers who think it right to leave their rods anything up to 60 yards away from them, whilst they have a "social" with their mates.

Excuse.... well I've got my baitrunners on and my remote in my pocket! Card please.....best if you pack up now, as you are not a member until the committee make a decision on whether you remain a member.

dezza · Apr 25, 2011

This business of running along the bank seems strange. However there have been times when I have run along the bank keeping up with fast moving barbel or trout in fast water.

Keeping fish out of snags can take a whole lot of skills, especially hook and hold.

richiekelly · Apr 25, 2011

seems to me that all he cares about is getting a take from the carp, the tackle he is using doesnt sound up to the job to me, i would definately have a word with him or better still the ballif as thats more likley to have have effect on him, i dont like "fish at all costs angling" fish welfare must come first and if he doesnt understand that the club doesnt need him.

when i baliffed a local lake i found someone fishing for carp in snags [old trees in the water] away from his rods and using a baitrunner he proudly told me he had caught 3 carp but had lost 7 in the snags, he didnt fish the water again as he was banned.

sagalout · Apr 25, 2011

Ron The Hat Clay said:
However there have been times when I have run along the bank keeping up with fast moving barbel or trout in fast water

He is not trying to keep up, he is dragging the fish through the water.

The consensus is to report it, that is what I shall do when I get back home, away at the moment.

Lord Paul of Sheffield · Apr 25, 2011

Yes report him
There are too many fish with damaged mouths already

barbelboi · Apr 25, 2011

Quote:
" When a carp takes the bait the angler runs along the bank dragging the carp behind. If he is not quick enough the fish invariably snags and he then has to pull for a break."

Seems somewhat odd. I can understand following a large fish with the rod taking the strain until it 'slows down a bit' but this appears to be either a case of ignorance in respect of fish care or darnright bad angling. Similar to the people who tend to point their 3.5 t/c rod with 15lb line directly at the fish and continue to walk backwards while their friend nets it.

dezza · Apr 25, 2011

Some of the worst cases of fish handling I have ever seen have been with carp anglers who try to play big carp with their 13 feet 3.5 - 4 lbs TC rods and 50 lb braid.

Not having the strength to hold such rods properly they do as Barbelboi has described yet think that they are anglers.

I challenge anyone to hold a 13 foot stiff carp rod and bend it to it's test curve!

13 feet, 4lb rods are a bloody waste of space! They don't even use such brutal sticks for surfcasting where often species of fish, infinitely harder fighting than carp, are played through the surf. They do this because the rod is f-l-e-x-i-b-l-e, and reduces the lever arm disadvantage against the angler when a big fish is played with some force.

barbelboi · Apr 25, 2011

Well put Ron
Going to the other extreme I have a friend (we fish for carp from time to time but are not 'carp anglers' as we tend to use one rod, usually with a float, and tend to stay awake) who uses an original prestons carbonactive float rod to swiftly dispatch large doubles to mid twentys to his net. He is often asked by the heavy mob 'how can you catch large fish with such a bendy rod' to which he replies 'the carp don't how bendy it its'. I feel over gunned using a 1.75 barble rod when I'm with him.

dezza · Apr 25, 2011

barbelboi said:
Well put Ron
Going to the other extreme I have a friend (we fish for carp from time to time but are not 'carp anglers' as we tend to use one rod, usually with a float, and tend to stay awake) who uses an original prestons carbonactive float rod to swiftly dispatch large doubles to mid twentys to his net. He is often asked by the heavy mob 'how can you catch large fish with such a bendy rod' to which he replies 'the carp don't how bendy it its'. I feel over gunned using a 1.75 barble rod when I'm with him.

Yes I like your comment regarding how carp can't tell the strength of the rod being used.

I have a 1.75 lb 11 foot Harrison barbel rod I feel confident in landing the biggest carp that swims. I know that because I have beached sharks in the past using similar types of rods. But when I was a lot younger you must understand.

In my recent trip to Oz I was able to examine a few really well designed surf sticks. They were Shimano and highly rated by the top Oz surf casters. One of them was rated for leads up to 9 oz!!!!

That's right - 9 oz. One of the guys in the shop told me that he has one of these rods and regularly chucks 250 metres with it.

Well to be honest, this rod at 12 1/2 feet was lighter than some carp rods.

There is no doubt that the carp fishing fraternity have got it severely wrong when it comes to rod design. No doubt some of them will protest and say that the rods are required for casting distances. What sort of distances you may ask?

If it's anything in excess of 150 metres, you may as well use a bait boat!

barbelboi · Apr 25, 2011

Ron
I think the problem is that most carp tackle/bait of today is used to catch anglers, not fish. Lets face it, **** Walker landed Ravioli, admittedly with a lot of help from P T, on a 1.5 MK4 (or was it a stepped up MK3) and quite a few other large carp on the same tackle. I've had carp to 27.10 on a '57 MK4 avon without blowing a gasket.

dezza · Apr 25, 2011

The biggest carp I ever caught at just short of 25 kg was landed using a Bruce & Walker Glass Mk IV which if I remember had a TC of 2 lb.

In reality, old **** was a tad undergunned when he landed the record. Shortly after that when B James started making Mk IVs the dimensions were increased somewhat apparently to compensate for the poor split cane that was about at the time.

The rod that landed Clarissa was an original Mk IV according to Chris Ball who owns that rod.

barbelboi · Apr 25, 2011

Big fish Ron
Was that in South Africa? Wonder if you can help me on this one - My MK4 was a birthay present from my late father in 1957 after I'd totaled a cheap bamboo rod on a lively tinca that left a bend the curve the size of Tattenham Corner in the tip section. It was bought from our local shop from Jimmy Bruce Snr, B James and Sons, Northfield Ave. The question - were they still using tonkin cane then or had supplies dried out. Irrespective of the quality the rod has served me well although it did have a rest during the 70's and 80's.

dezza · Apr 25, 2011

Where else. It wasn't such a great angling feat either. Another carp of similar size was landed on a fly rod.

I'm not the most qualified person to ask that question. Next time I speak to Chris Ball I will put it to him.

I think supplies of quality Tonkin were difficult to get then as the west was not particularly liked by China at the time. Much of the bamboo we did use came from Eastern India. Tonkin, I think, also came from Eastern India from an intermediary, not direct, who didn't know how to pick the best poles. There was a huge demand for tonkin then if you remember.

I also owned several spit cane rods a few of which were absolute rubbish. I smashed a Chapman's 550 in half on an average Yorkshire barbel in 1964. A friend smashed a James Mk IV on a pike. We were only too pleased when the first quality glass rods started to appear ca 1962/3 By 1966, our cane rods had been consigned to the skip.

bennygesserit · Apr 25, 2011

Maybe its just a case of ignorance , I am a newly returned angler and when I first started fishing this isn't even something I would have even considered, through a lot of forum reading I am gradually getting better , so for instance last year a 5lb pike took a roach I was landing on the canal, luckily ( don't know how ) it ended up being cleanly hooked in the lip so I was able to remove the hook without even taking it out of the water. Another thing I have also learned is that the more you pull a carp the more it pulls back so I have stepped down my elastic to double 8 and try to coax them in rather than haul them in.

On the other hand the proliferation of shock sticks in angling shops means that the newer angler is led down a certain path and a certain mindset.

I would also question the design of the swim that allows this kind of situation to occur , perhaps a word with the baliff and a specific sign on that particular peg might help , or a no fishing here sign ?

Its always difficult to give advice to another angler without seeming to criticise , I have twice asked people why they handle fish in rags and have been told that the human skin is bad for fish , so you have to mention it in a very tactful manner - best done through the baliff I would say.

Ray Daywalker Clarke · Apr 25, 2011

The worst case of fish handling is fish O'mania without a doubt, but i think we are getting away from the point here, it's not about carp anglers, it's about one angler, pulling, Yes Pulling fish along while running.

Is it right?

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