Crucian carp

Hi guys, Im fishing a lovely old estate lake on sunday after crucians, This will be the first time i've actually targeted them specifically.
Any tips on catching them would be much appreciated i.e baits rigs e.t.c, I don't own a pole so will be fishing the waggler.
I've read many times how shy biting these fish are so shall be scaling right down with a light float, Line and hooklength.
Is groundbait effective? If so any mixes anyone reccomends?
Thanks in advance,
Steve.

I've had plenty on the waggler.
Quick tips.
1. Plumb the depth exactly - fish 1-2" overdepth or dead depth.
2. shot the float to the very tip.
3. Ensure that the bottom shot is able to register on the float.

It is the rig rather than line strength/hook size, though should only need 2lb line.
4. Try bread punch on a 16/14 with a modest amount of groundbait.
5 Try sweetcorn, feed sparingly and accurately- this may be better if lots of small roach/rudd taking bread punch.
Good Luck.

You'd be much better off with a pole, but bearing in mind that's not an option, a waggler set up will do if it's not too windy.

Try a 2BB or 3BB Drennan Stillwater Blue with only 1mm of float tip showing. Having, say 3mm showing, will mean you are likley to not even see the bites.

Put all the shot around the base of the float and have 3 No. 10 shot spread 10" apart so that the last one is 10" from the hook.

Mainline of around 3lb is ideal (I use 2.6lb Bayer Perlon) and hooklinks around 2lb. 1.7lb Beyer Perlon is good if you don't like pre stretched lines, but I prefer Preston Innovations Reflo Powerline - 2lb 10oz 0.10mm. I tie my hooklinks to 9" exactly so if I need to replace one with another I won't have to re-plumb or change my rig.

It's really important that you plumb the peg accurately. I look of a gently sloping bottom at around 6m to 12m.distance. This is where the pole can score much better than the waggler.

I would start off fishing exact depth and work from there. That means that if you are missing bites I would try 4mm shallower, or deeper. When you get it right you should start hitting most bites and landing fish. If you land fish and teh hook is only just in the lip, or even outside the mouth then it's worth tweaking the depth.

Don't worry too much about bait. Maggots, Casters, Squatts and Pinkies will all work. Corn or small cubes of meat can be good if other fish are a nuisance. On waters where pellets are often used these can work a treat. If this is the case on your water try some expander pellets (I quite like VDE Ringers).

Just feed little and often - eg. 10 maggots every 3 minutes or so. And recast as you feed. On good days it's worth casting, feeding, waiting for teh bait to settle, counting to 10 and starting the process again.

Just to re-emphasise - teh two most important bites are to fish fine, with the float dotted right down and to get the depth exactly right.

I hope that helps!

Mark's right - breadpunch can be good too - especially on park type waters where people feeds the birds.

I forgot to mention hooks. Lighter finewire hooks will get you more bites because they are lighter and therefore less detectable to the fish. I like the Kamazan B511's, or B611's if I think I might pick up harder fighting species.

Thank you very much Mark and Matt, Brilliant advice from both of you!
Looks like it is so true about shy biting fish, I was planning on using 2 and a half mainline and a two pound bottom using a small canal grey float weather permitting, I've read before the depth your fishing is the most important thing to get right with crucians and you guys have confirmed this.
I must say im really looking forward to having a go for the crucians being something im not used too doing, They go to a good size 3lb+ and all im told average a pound+.
I'll post how i fare after sundays session.
Thanks lads,
Regards,
Steve.

Failing that you could try bolt rigging for them, works a treat.

!!!

Hahaha! 3oz lead and 10mm boilie works a treat eh! Wol,

Good advice above because they can be frustrating little devils sometimes, accuracy in depth and fish as fine as is practical is the order of the day. I reckon bread punch takes some beating as an all round bait for crucians but even then the little devils can have it off the hook without a positive bite being registered, so be prepared to strike at any unusual float movement.

Not actually tried it yet but a guy i know has had some excellent results bolt rigging when most other tried n tested methods have been in the main fruitless.

Some good tips there. As Mark says, you don't need to scale down hook size/line strength; 2 to 3lb line and hook to suit bait is plenty fine enough. I use a size 12 to 4lb Maxima at my local lake and the crucians don't mind a bit!

The two most important things are depth setting and float/rig sensitivity. A pole helps with the former but offers no real advantage in actual fishing. Stillwater blues are good if you can see them; failing that any light float with a long thin antenna will do, as long as the shot nearest the hook makes a noticeable difference to the float tip.

For what it's worth, my set-up is as follows: set the float about three to six inches overdepth, fixed to the line with a half-inch length of float rubber. Attach enough shot to cock the float so that only the antenna is visible (but leaving as much of it as possible showing). Put this bulk about three feet from the hook, unless the water is shallower than about four feet, in which case it may as well be used to lock the float on the line. Now put one small shot on which will sink the antenna completely; I find a No 4 about right with a 4BB Stillwater Blue. This goes two inches from the hook - i.e. a few inches further from the float then the depth of the water.

Cast out, allow to settle and gently draw the tackle back; this tensions the line to the tell-tale shot and draws the float tip down. Do this with the rod in rests - and a centrepin is the ideal reel for the job as it allows more accurate adjustment.

The whole set up works like the lift method, but offers far greater sensitivity. The slightest touch on the bait will cause the float either to lift or be slowly drawn under. Because the bottom shot sinks the float, it also identifies any depressions or drop-offs which may have been missed when plumbing the depth; these little holes are often hotspots and well worth concentrating on.

After an hour or so it is usally possible to reduce the 'slack' between the float and bottom shot so the rig is set at the perfect depth - thereby doing away with the need to tighten up after casting.

Using what sort of bait Wol do you know? I've sometimes caught them on inappropriate gear but not by design and once had a nice session on stewed wheat but that was on a lake that mainly had crucians in. Bonnie little fighters they are too on light gear, they go like stink when you first hook them.

Thanks all, Ive plenty of tips to take with me now so hopefully i might catch a couple along the way, I just hope there real crucians now!!
Regards.

He was i think fishing Corn Graham.

All the above sounds as good as advise as youl get Steve.



All I would add is that when I am catching crucians I will strike at what i call "think bites"

hard to explain without me sounding daft, but sometimes you just sense or think its a bite even though there is no obvious indication on the float

Cheers Beecy, All the advice ive recieved is spot-on, Thanks lads.
I must say after targeting barbs all last season with three foot twitches for bites this crucian fishing sounds very interesting!!
Cheers.