Fish Thefts

The facts certainly dont look like its anything to do with predator anglers. angling times should have got THEIR facts right before publishing a story like they did and at least given the formost predator group a chance to have there say at the time when the story was published. on one hand they want to ban buying a rod licence because immigrants are nicking fish and then theyre saying its because of baits for predator anglers. to me it looks like the story is more important than tbhe truth

sometimes it makes you wonder whose side theyre on.

All kinds of people are taking fish from migrants to fishery owners.
Good example is a commercial near where i live which never had any chub in whereas the Retford canal was full of them,suddenly matches where being won on this commercial with bags of chub and the canal was devoid of them,add to that the commercial owner had done porridge.
Lorries with tanks on them had been spotted at the side of the canal but nothing was done and the fish where taken.
Bream where being removed by carp anglers at another lake i fish and deposited into the nearby River Derwent because to the carp man they where nuisance fish,now aint that sad

that reminds me why I don't by AT anymore, quickly becoming the daily sport of the angling press.

If you can't find a good story make one up.

There's an easy way to get this story properly 'refuted' and that's for the bait companies to declare their sources for roach and other silver fish. If they buy them wholesale from the European markets, they'll have receipts (or the taxman will want to know why not). So come on, bait companies, put up or shut up.

What the PAC has said is actually unhelpful. It's just nonsense to say that coarse fish baits are 'inferior' to sea fish. It has echoes of the hunters saying they chased foxes because it's the most effective and humane control method. And look where that absurd line of argument got them....

Sea baits ARE better than coarse baits. They are smellier, oilier, generally a better shape for casting and strike off the hooks better.

How can the PAC issuing a statement which sets the record straight on behalf of pike anglers be unhelpful.

That's surely what it's there for.

It's unhelpful because it doesn't deny the existence of bagfuls of roach in the shop freezer, that's why. Just because in, as it turns out, a few people's opinion sea baits are better doesn't answer the main question; where do the coarse fish come from?

'Fish farms and sustainable sources...' So, who exactly is farming roach? And what are the 'sustainable sources'?

Everyone is saying where they DON'T come from. And when they do say where they come from, nobody seems willing to prove it.

I have no doubt that they are netted from trout lakes and the like where they're not wanted. That's fine by me. So why not say...

We've become frightened of admitting that sometimes, we kill a small fish to catch a bigger one. Part of it is AT hysteria, the rest of it is some desperate attempt to be PC.

It's unhelpful because it doesn't deny the existence of bagfuls of roach in the shop freezer, that's why. Just because in, as it turns out, a few people's opinion sea baits are better doesn't answer the main question; where do the coarse fish come from?

No-one's denying tackle shops sell coarse deads, alongside other species.

These are supplied by reputable companies, whose names appear on the packaging.

There's not a shred of proof to suggest coarse fish are being netted wholesale by criminal gangs to supply the deadbait trade.

The Environment Agency - which monitors populations of coarse fish in our rivers - has produced a number of reports into why they have declined.

None of these suggest the bait trade is to blame. I'm surprised that as the authorative source on this, they weren't approached for a comment, but there you go.

Most pike anglers I know favour sea deads, for reasons Eric Edwards sets out.

As a journalist Mark, you'd surely agree the story was unsubstantiated, unfair and unbalanced.

Where's the authorative source like the EA standing it up..?

Where's the balance - where's the quote from the Pike Anglers Club or anyone else connected with predator fishing.

They didn't bother, did they. The whole thing's distinctly thin on facts.

They just lifted an 18-month-old story out of the local paper and dressed it up as their big exclusive.

Isn't balance and accuracy what journalism's all about..?

Maybe it was a quiet week and they took a flier.

I'm surprised anyone who calls themselves a journalist would defend it, but there you go.

I've only been a journalist for the best part of 20 years, so who am I to comment.

AT certainly seems to have gone a bit quiet.

They even managed to spell the name of one of the best-known pike fishing centres in the Broads wrong.

Maybe that speaks volumes when it comes to how thoroughly they checked the story out.

If they can't get basic details like that right, what does it say about the credence of the story.

IE, we checked it through so carefully we even spelled Brundall wrong.

I can't see how the PAC responding to that or highlighting the holes in what is a very flaky story is unhelpful.

It's what the PAC's there for. It exists to defend pike fishing and pike anglers.

Are you a member out of interest..?

I've been doing a little research in the area of fish thefts and will be dedicating my article next week to the current state of affairs,and the public image of angling in general, it will suprise and maybe embarrase a few who hold strong views on the subject. Certainly changed my view on the whole subject. Be on the site middle of next week.

Looking forward to your article Mark .

Neville Fickling, who's a bait dealer and tackle shop owner from Lincolnshire has asked me to share this:

Chris I'm not registered on fishing magic, could you explain to Mark williams why we do not reveal fish sources. 1) The last time people found out about one of my fish suppliers they ended up going direct to him. My supply of fish was reduced and obvious my business was reduced accordingly.
2) My policy is not to tell anyone from the general public or the press from where they come from. To do so would be commercial suicide. As a journalist Mark of all people should know about "not revealing his sources"
3) My business is registered with DEFRA's Buyer or Seller at First Sale scheme. I have to submit returns and can be inspected without notice.

If you could pass this on I'd appreciate it

Whoa! I'm the last person on earth to defend AT's reporting, not least because I haven't read the story (though I'm sure the precis on FM was accurate).

It wouldn't be the first time they've gone off half-cocked on a story. No, I wasn't saying that at AT they have the creme de la creme of reporting staff. And the 'calls themselves a journalist...' etc was a bit of a cheap shot, Chris.

My point was just that fire must be fought with fire; in this case, an accusation should have been shot down in flames with facts, not slightly lame rebuttals. I'm not knocking the PAC either. The bait suppliers who are, after all, the accused, should be able to defend themselves. (and no, Chris, I'm not a member, but to salve my conscience, I did a talk a couple of years back for Messrs Brett and Co.)

I'm pleased Nev can back up all his claims with paperwork from DEFRA, but is he claiming all bait suppliers are as scrupulous? Is it beyond ther realms of reason to suspect that a dodgy dealer could get along to a club water at the dead of night with a net and nab what he needed to sell?

And yes, Chris, it is a bit of a 'when did you last beat you wife?' argument, but I'd have been much more interested in a rebuttal such as Neville's which at least tries to give some facts instead of banging on about sardines.

How would it look if AT, accused of making the story up, defended themselves with: "In the first place, we hardly ever print stories about crime. And anyway, all our facts come from reputable sources." Would it convicne you that everything's above board?

mark,

i would be very suprised if there are ANY unscrupulous deadbait dealers at all.
the reason? simple economics mate.
the average packet of dead roach are around ?4 for a pack of ten at retail price, price to the dealer about half of that. live silver fish for re stocking etc are far more valuable than that.

furthermore i have been round shite loads of tackle shops in the last few years, i have never seen roach inunmarked packets, they are either ammo, lucebaits, baitbox etc and marked as such.

but lets just suppose your right and there are some back door deadbait sellers, then yes they should be stamped out, yet who is really at fault here because for it to be profitable then there needs to be a trade and that trade has to come from the tackle shops. the same shops that were spouting off their nonsense in roy websters bitter little article.
the tackle dealers know the big players in this game, and those guys are straight, they have to be because they have to be registered. do you really think those organisations are going to indulge in back door skullduggery to get an extra quid or two, when the potential is for complete ruin of their reputation and therefore their business. after all, what tackle dealer would buy from such a place if that came out?

sorry but its all bloody fantasy based not in the slightest in truth inmy honest opinion.

I agree with Mark B. Spot on mate. Cant see anybody going to the trouble of stealing live fish and then killing them and selling them on for peanuts. Would they be more likely to be sold on as live fish? I think thats the more likely option.

Just to throw another bucket of petrol on the fire, what is difference between me buying a load of dodgy roach and skimmer dead baits and catching them myself for the freezer?

Whats the difference Andy ?
You catching a few pounds tops and illegal netting of maybe 1/2 tonne or more .

But the amount of dead baits used in a season across the board isnt going to change, whether we catch them or buy them its the same amount. The netted section of a drain/river will soon recover, and as I have said, there cant be that much of a market for dead baits to make this sort of thing a problem (if the thefts are for dead baits).

I know that this may be going slightly 'off on a tangent' but a similar incident occurred on a popular little pond near where my mum and dad live. It was full of Roach, Perch, Rudd and unfortunately for the silver fish, Carp too, with some going up to double figures. The Rudd in particular had exploded in numbers, it was literally heaving with them and there were some very nice fish present, going up to the 2lb mark.

On one particular day that the local kids came down to fish it, they got a bit of a shock. There were literally thousands of little Rudd lying dead on the bank, reason??? Some dodgy b******ds had come down in the middle of the night and netted the lake for its Carp, the t***s then just emptied the Rudd back onto the grass at the side of the lake.

Why would anyone do this? They ruined a little pond that the kids could fish in their hols. The reason? The matchboys 'Pastie Carp fever'!!!

Kind regards,
Davester

For what it is worth, I think the PAC response is absolutely spot on!

I have gone to the local tackle shops on a number of occasions to buy packets of frozen coarse fish to use to take pics for the paper and have yet to find any packets that ARE clearly labelled by the supplier!!! Must be my timing's rubbish!
The EA always deny there are any problems within angling if it results in bad publicity for them. FACT!! Hell, they'd even manage to turn Calverton and Leyland into positive PR given half the chance!
And when was the last time anyone from the PAC rang us up off their own backs? No one's rung me that's for sure.
And from speaking to tackle shops up and down the country over the last 18 months they all report a MASSIVE increase in the demand for coarse fish dead baits over the past few years - so there must be a Hell of a lot of predator anglers who haven't sussed out that sea deads are infinitely better than coarse ones!!!!!
Rank bad journalism? Depends upon your perspective I guess.

The reward is for information leading to a conviction against any organised fish stealing... including carp.
To date we have been given significant leads on a number of people.
Personally I'd like to know more about the dead fish I use to catch pike and zander. No crime there.
I'd also like to know why several roach I've used this year still have long lines sticking out of their mouths... presumably they are from Europe where this is an 'accepted' practice. For me, I detest long-lining as a method of catching fish and would prefer more background before spending my money.
At least Angling Times is prepared to try and fight, I don't see an awful lot coming from any other weekly angling publications.