"30s runs waters."

Who would have ever thought such a thing could have happened twenty years ago,maybe even ten.
It is here,not far from you ,one might wager,as either home grown wonder fish,or garlic breathed ,foreigners,still dizzy from crossing the channel by Air,boat or train,continue to suddenly appear at a water near you.
The mags and forums are rife with proud captors,catching not one thirty in a session,but even three and four or more,and seasons tally of thirties ,bordering on incomprehensible,at least to an old timer like me.
I nearly joined one this spring,but after thinking about,and deciding,my love of all species,and venues,was too strong,lost my deposit.
And do you know,I am glad I did,because my busy work schedule would never have fitted in in with it,and the hours needed to do it justice.
Another thing folk have mentioned,is that PBs from certain waters,are not even taken seriously any more,and to be respected ,they must be from some other "ultra cult" ,hard core place,where fishing is probably illegal in the first place.
"Guesting",now widely regarded as "ok" by most,and famous fish,displayed by hardcore anglers,who will stop at nothing ,or anybody to get the trophy shot.
I digress from ny original theme.
Forget the ubiquitous "Simmos",those Dolly the Sheep androids,or wherever the source ,they are here to stay,because thats what the punters want,instant Carping is well established.
The sad thing for me is how so many anglers ,feel it that ordinary fish,the sort that most of us catch,are no longer worthy.
Even the comics ,seem to only feature great big fish,Carp that years ago would have been in there once a year.
As a result,every spare bit of water,or green field is being dug and stocked,and anglers gleefully rush there,PBs are all,the modern Digi Camera providing instant gratification,or dare I say it,the dreaded Camera phone.
Something I see every day on my travels as an EA Bailiff.
Am I too cynical,or am barking back to a bygone era through rose coloured spectacles,or should I be glad the old ,french onion seller,with his stripey vest,and beret,and rikkety bicycle now delivers Giant,hump backed Carp instead,except modern technology means it is more likely to have an EEC passport,or even from Antipodean origins.
What happened to the key to the padlock,to blighties once impregnable shores.

They only went and built a Tunnel !

But enough,you have your say.
Pons.

have your say? at what exactly? are you actually asking a question or just ranting on about getting old?

happy to debate and give view etc, but feel free to pin-point your intended rant to the enablement of others to converse with you.....

sorry, i was ranting.......

'Digi Camera providing instant gratification'

i know what you mean - i always use boots to develop my proper camera film. why use modern technology when using film is so much more of a hassle. you can always make sure you didnt photograph your thumb when using a digi, makes it harder to say 'it was this big' huh......i'm lost Chris

...ps, whats guesting, is it like dogging but with carp?

'is it like dogging, but with carp'


TOP THAT!!! love it!

you're in e.sussex aren't you stu. if you want to come dogging at my local water you are welcome, we can look through bins together...

...be warned though, it holds 30's that you might catch before you die

I am in East Sussex, yesireee!

However, is there any chance we can go dogging in the bins together whilst rummaging, then we can take digi photos or at least wait while one of us gets them developed, talk about the old days, catch a 70 out of the monument, but work for it (cough-cough)and stand proud saluting whilst the Germans sneak 40lb roach in over the channel?

only an idea of course, but I digress, But enough, you have your say.

Best you get back in your bivvies and drink some more Stella,lads.
Ring up Stan Collymore,he can be your inspiration.
Pons.

"The mags and forums are rife with proud captors,catching not one thirty in a session,but even three and four or more,and seasons tally of thirties ,bordering on incomprehensible,at least to an old timer like me".

Chris, as well you know there is little in age difference between us,and like yourself, I'm an old timer, if thats the right phrase, at this carp fishing game, but the title of this thread posted by yourself sounds slightly bitter, that an angler can make the effort to go out and find a water that contains big fish or many big fish and having found that water has to wait until his place comes up before he can fish it, then when he does get on there and catches a few, it makes it a 30's runs water, what a ridiculous thing to say.
From what I can make of your initial post it dosn't seem right to you that some good anglers can get on some good waters ie big fish, and then catch them with todays methods, would you prefer that they use side hooked spuds and tin foil on the line to make them more worthy?
You may be interested to know that some carp anglers have been catching 2 or 3 30's in a session longer than 10 or 15 years ago, it's just that these days the anglers concerned are more often more open with their results now than they were then.
Times move on and so do techniques, so why not results?

Clive n Malc were on a right good old 'runs' water years ago. Still remember the tune on the video. Rich'worth anyone?
Colne Valley!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Evening Clive,
No bitterness or jealousy involved,just a few observations of mine,drawing no conclusions,and certainly no personal sleight on you or anyone who fishes such waters.
Where did I talk of par boiled spuds and tinfoil,or knock modern baits or methods.
And I have no beef with anglers who fish these waters,but regardless of the fact that anglers may well have been catching multiple 30s 10 or 15 yrs ago,I 'll wager that was exceptional ,and probably very rare.
Lets face it without fast growing Simmos and similar strains,or foreign imports ,and the introduction of high quality food ,it is very doubtful anyone would be catching like they are.
Sorry that you were rancled by the title,but I dont think it is a ridiculous or unfair statement,it happens in France all the time,and latterly here.
Other species like Cats on the Ebro and Segre ,have now become 100lb runs waters,where 100 plus fish are often the norm,rather than exception.
Pons.

Most of its sarcastic Pons, dont take it to heart.

However, I expect our kids will be moaning about 50's runs waters in a decade or two, when 4 rods and rado controlled automatically striking rigs are the norm!

No I agree with Chris things have changed.

I dont like it but as Ive said before If I was hjust starting out Carp fishing/Cat fishing then it would be the normal to me as I would not know any different.

If fish in all waters had reached these new "normal" weights then it would merely be progress (if thats the right word) but the fact that it is still not all means these new "artificially" created waters have left most "natural" waters far behind.
To me the problem with this is that most anglers are still fishing the waters that dont hold masses of these big fish.The new type waters "de valueing" the old waters and the catchs from them to a certain extent.

But having said that there has always been a divide of sorts.Couldnt really have compared the fishing on the Colne Valley waters back in the 80's with the fishing on a local pit.

I dont know what to make of it.In the same vein Walker,BB,etc etc wouldnt have believed a "runs water" full stop could exist back in their early days!

In fact the people whose fishing it has realy "de valued" are the likes of myself who struggled to catch big carp in the pre commercial days but dont want to fish the commercials now.Get what I mean?

I will try and explain.If I had shown my photo albums/records to a young angler in the 80,s they would have been gob smacked! These days I could walk up to most young guys fishing a "modern" type water show them the same stuff and they wouldnt bat an eye lid.In fact they would most likely offer me advice on bait and rigs so that I could catch some better fish!

Niggles me? well yes I suppose it does a bit.BUT accept it I do as it is just "change" and after all my choice not to join them on these waters.

Why do I whine then? Basicly (as Ive pointed out many,many times before)it is because this trend towards "instant carp" has created the monster that I call "The Carp Machine" this monster has given all new carpers (in fact I could say new anglers as most people seem to go straight in to carping now)much higher aspirations.They want to catch these "big fish" that acording to the Machine "everybody else" is catching.The buisness backing behind the Machine takes advantage of this demand and more comercial carp waters are made.The big rub is that a lot of these are "made" from existing quality waters,but quality other fishing.

I cant see things changing now a new way has been ordained.
I had hoped that the popularity of the TV anglers would help.They all put forward a very positive veiw of "all round" angling.Trouble is of course that the new guy can relatively easily copy their TV heros sucsess with carp by visiting a commercial but when it comes to copying what they see caught chub,tench,roach,barbel,pike etc etc it isnt as easy to do so.

In around 30 years this problem wont exist any way as all who remember another way will be dead and the angler of the time no wiser.

A well known writer wrote a "fictional" story about similar topic in one of my old 70's Angling Year Book type publications.I will try and find it and speak to Graham to see if its possible to post it without breaching any laws.Its a good read and disturbingly accurate.

Unknownforce,
No worries mate,and your probably right with your comment.
Budgie,
Good post ,and I can see where you are coming from.

When I was a young lad,and my fishing tackle shop was Crudgingtons in Bath,the then manager,Dave Box,used to be a pretty good Carper,amongst other skills.
He taught me loads,as you might have expected or hoped.
One day he told me he had caught a Twenty odd pound Carp.
Where from I duly enquired ?
"North of Bournemouth",said he with a chuckle........
The other assistant Tony,another very decent angler used to fish a "secret" Bristol lake,called Hamgreen,and was just as secretive,and remember twenties were rare then in most places,certainly down our way.
Gerry Savage was a top Carper,in fact one of his branded rods has caught me loads of Big Barbel on a flooded Severn ,years later.
Twenties were the target for most,I would guess.
A 40lb,Carp was a once a year job in the old AT,the Billing Aquadrome 40 was groundbraking,and called a real stir.
Now we see them every week.

The only problem as I see it,is that pbs can jump straight to a mega level,with very little effort,and the whole mystique just goes out the window.
A 30lb Carp is still an exceptional fish,unfortuanately if you read the press,it seems like it is the norm,and Anglers fishing normal places feel they are failing if they catch lesser fish,and are almost embarrassed to admit their PB is smaller.

It is part of Carp Fishing evolution,this modern machine,and it shows no sign of slowing down,as the demand is there.

Who knows what the future holds ?

Pons.

But as long as YOU enjoy your fishing then that's what its all about eh, get out and 'enjoy' it. I'm off later today for two nights, i care not what others do or catch, always happy to help, well done and take a pic. I rarely look at the press and if i do i never let it get to me. Life unfortunately is way short, stop worrying about others and make the most of your fishing. PBs i think are personal, a relevant recording to the individual involved. My Carp PB is not huge by no means but i'm dead chuffed with it and dont really give a flying what others think. Right, must get me kit sorted for later.

I agree with Chris on this one. When somebody mentions a thirties water, it doesn't really mean anything anymore. Nobody has to go out and search for a thirties water, it is there for you on a plate.
The big fish world is choking on its own vomit for something new to happen that will bring back that excitement and expectation feeling.

There are no long forgotten estate lakes with monster fish in them, whimpy's have built on them all.
But yes I would agree, guesting is the most exciting thing left in fishing.

There are long forgotten lakes with big, uncaught fish in them. There are also nice syndicate or club waters that have original fish in them rather than fast growing strains. They just need to be found.

Who cares what other people catch or how full the weeklies are with pictures of 30's, 40's and even 80's nowadays. As Warren says, if you enjoy your fishing what does it matter?

Long forgotten and secret lakes are a thing of the past, which are consigned to the history books.
There is one such lake a stones throw from where I live. it looks the part with it's lily pads and coots gliding silently over the mist shrouded water, and there is allways a monsterouse splash as you get too near the very silty margins. It's very easy to see how somebody could let their imagination run away with them.
Get real Sash, they don't exist.

Must be my imagination that I've been fishing one for the last two years then?

There are loads of private or unfished lakes around. Perhaps you should buy a few OS maps and get off your arse to go find them 'cause they're not going to be secret or unfished if you hear about them from someone else are they?

Well said Warren,
your fishing should mean all you want it too, to one person, yourself!
What others catch matters not one bit, a P.B is not important to anyone other than the angler concerned, if someone catches a P.B while your there, congratulate him and offer to make him a tea to celebrate, Ok it's not your fish but the angler who's just caught should be well happy,why not spend five minutes listening to the angler as he recounts the occasion, we as anglers usually do!
Perhaps I should add when I'm on the banks and someone does catch a P.B near to where I may be fishing I'll always make the effort to walk over and pass on my congratulations, the size of the fish involved is not something that matters in the slightest, be it 13lbs or 33, the angler who caught the fish has just had their biggest ever.
It's the moment that counts, not so much the size of fish.

Chris,
you say that a 30lb Carp is still an exceptional fish, of course it is, it's one hell of a fish, as far as I'm concerned a fish of 25+ is an exceptional fish, with that said, I feel I'm lucky that I've not lost that,'I'd rather catch anything than nothing' mentality,I gave up 'the size matters' thing years ago, a road every angler travels at some point I think, no matter what species they fish for.
It's all very well looking back with rose tinted glasses but why look back at all?
It's the past, it's gone.

" secret lakes are a thing of the past, which are consigned to the history books."
Oh yes, yes, they certainly are, there's absolutely no point in even looking or making the effort to get on some closed waters, move along please, there's nothing to see here, said with tongue firmly placed in cheek.

"Best you get back in your bivvies and drink some more Stella,lads."

Now thats real fishing.......

25 days.