Something Contoversial ...

  • Thread starter ED (The ORIGINAL and REAL one)
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E

ED (The ORIGINAL and REAL one)

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I have just had a telephone conversation with a friend of mine (who I know as 'The Bone Collector')He was on his way out to work on the night shift and didn't have time to post this himself. (He keeps promising me he will join the site but hasn't got round to doing it yet)

One of the things he mentioned during the conversation was that someone had told him that the reason Richard Walker had sent Clarissa (Walker's record breaking carp) to London zoo was to stop anyone else from catching it(at a higher weight) and maybe
taking the record from him.

I've been thinking about this ,and if this WAS the reason, don't you think it was a very selfish thing to do??

Didn't it deprive someone else the pleasure of catching the fish ??


Lee Jacksons fish 'Two Tone' was returned to the water for someone else to have the chance of maybe catching a record -- shouldn't the same have happened with 'Clarissa'
 
Mark Wintle

Mark Wintle

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Before going on to whether Walker might have been selfish which will be a matter of opinion unless there is someone who knows Walker's true motive and opinion it's worth explaining the record fish situation at that time.

From 1950 to 1953 the NFA were responsible for record fish claims and had a committee for that purpose. The exact rules are not available but the subsequent BRFC that evolved from an AT one of 1953 into something not that disimilar to the one we have today in 1957 had a rule that the body of the fish must be produced.

Walker knew this, and Bob Richard's previous record fish had been killed and set up. RW explains in No Need To Lie that he spent all night grappling with how to claim the record (and why shouldn't he as it was by far the biggest carp ever caught?) without killing the record, and came up with a solution. Bear in mind that although Walker's own photography skills were good that would not be enough to claim any record (and look where photo identification is taking us!).

So by the rules of the day, and given that such fish were often killed and set up, I don't think he was selfish but rather that had he simply returned it even with good photos then no one would have believed him.
 
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Fred Blake

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I can think of a few things to counter that particular load of nonsense. Firstly, Walker was, during the early 1950's, trying to persuade angling clubs to stock with carp, but with little success; conventional wisdom had it that carp took a hundred years to grow to any size and were uncatchable when they did so.

Secondly, Walker, Thomas, 'BB' and several other members of the Carp Catchers Club had already seen carp in Redmire considerably larger than the fish which became known as Clarissa (it was actually named Ravioli by Walker); Walker himself netted a fish which became stranded during spawning and weighed it at 58lb. This fish was immediately returned - even though he could - were he the selfish and unscrupulous so-and-so that some have claimed - have rung the zoo and claimed a record 14lb heavier!

Furthermore, when he caught his second biggest carp at the beginning of the 1954 season he lied to Bob Richards and said it weighed the same as Richards' previous record - 31lb 8oz; in fact it weighed 34lb but Walker did not want him to know he had beaten him again. He did not reveal the truth until after Bob Richards' death.

Selfish? I think not. Good wind-up though!
 
E

ED (The ORIGINAL and REAL one)

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He still deprived someone from catching 'Clarissa' though ...... selfish or not and whether it was intended or not !!
 
Murray Rogers

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It wasn't like there were a lot of people fishing 'Redmire' at the time was it?

And it wasn't like there were a lot of people fishing for Carp at the time either.

Walker selfish????? Never.

As a foot note, the stuffed Clarisa sat above the gun room door of Chubbs in Little Chalfont for a good while were she looked a bit under weight (25ish), but she was sold on and I just wonder if anyone on here knows where she is now?
 
Murray Rogers

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I forgot to mention that the lake also had a resident Monster in it which never got caught,,,,, see old picture take from the punt etc,,, but you know all this ED so is it just a wind up??? you little minx.
 
P

Phil Hackett disability bad speller with Pride

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Ed don?t know whether he was or wasn?t. But down the years I?ve heard some strange tails about him by people who knew him well.
But like they say, ?dead men can?t defend themselves!?
 
G

Grant Lever

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wouldn't be much point in spending his life telling us all how to catch big fish if he didn't want us to ?,besides "redmire" location was kept fairly secret.
 
B

BAZ (Angel of the North) aka Fester

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Was R.Walker selfish?
When he wanted to fish Lymm Dam in which he said there was a carp as big or even bigger than Clarissa , he never got the permission beacause no night fishing was allowed at the time.
It was also said that he wanted the water closing down to other anglers for X amount of weeks.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)

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There have been all sorts of stories bandied around about Walker's record. I've heard them all. The problem is that a lot of the stories are conflicting and don't make sense.

There is no doubt in my mind that the fish did not weigh 44lb on capture, more like 41lbs. It most likely took on water during trnsportation. One thing that was true is that it broke the existing record.

As regards having the fish taken to the London Zoo; this was done to prove that the fish existed under the record fish rules at the time.

But Walker did not want to kill it. At that time, it was quite normal for specimen and record fish to be killed and set up.

Walker's fish wasn 't killed but it was put in a place where everyone could see it.

And yes there were much bigger fish in Redmire at that time, not many this is true, but there were.

When Chris Yates caught a fish of 51 lbs breaking the record, Walker was probably the first man to congratulate Yates. Walker was also quite upset when the Record Fish Committee rejected Yate's reacord.

Selfish - Walker?

Not a damn.

Anyone who knew him soon found out that he was one of the most generous and unselfish people who ever lived.

As an example, before Peter Stone could afford a car, Walker would often run all the way to Oxford to pick up Peter to take him on numerous fishing trips. And then take him back to Oxford too.

Have a look at how far Oxford is from Hitchin.

Walker selfish?

No Way!!
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)

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And whilst we are on the subject as to whether Walker was selfish or not, consider this.

When Walker was at his height as an Angling Times Columnist, he used to answer, in his own handwriting upwards of 100 letters a week!! When letters were passed on to Walker via AT, Walker replied with his own address at the top. 11, Bearton Ave Hitchin, became one of the best known private addresses in the country.

You tell me amongst the big names in angling today, anyone who would be that open and free with personal information?

Not one of them!

I onced asked him if he knew where I could get a bit of carp fishing. This would be about 1964. Not only did he send me full details, phone numbers etc. of a certain Buckinghamshire water, but he also drew a map on how to get there.

And I was not the only young angler he helped. There were thousands of us be it known.
 
R

Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)

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The location of "Redmire" had to be kept secret. The owner insisted on this.

The name, Redmire came about due to the colour the water turned when it rained.

Anyone today can find the famous pool. It's called Bernithan Court Lake and can be located near Llangorran, a village just to the west of Ross-on-Wye.
 
B

BAZ (Angel of the North) aka Fester

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Seriously.
Trying to put things into perspective, it is very clear that if any angler (or other) no matter who he is, famous or not so famous sticks his head above the parapet, then sooner rather than later some small minded person with nothing better to do will go into spiping mode.

Jelousy? Ignorance? or pure stupidity? No matter what the reason, these people will allways exist.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)

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And Walker did make some enemies make no mistake. Not many of course.

The most incredible thing about Walker was although in some of his writings he may have seemed arrogant, when you met him in the flesh, he came over as a very kind and totally human person.

Mind you, he wouldn't tolerate fools, not one little bit.
 
T

Tony Rocca

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Did anyone else actually see Clarissa in London Zoo? I did as a young boy but can remember it very clearly.
I believe she only weighed 18lb when she died, or was it 28lb?
 
E

ED (The ORIGINAL and REAL one)

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This was supposed to have come from someone who knew him a lot better than you Ron -- Someone who shared his hut with him VERY often ......
 
E

ED (The ORIGINAL and REAL one)

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Tony

Clarissa went on a hunger strike in protest at being sent to the zoo ......

(a bit like Ian Brady)
 
R

Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)

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Clarissa, if I can remember, weighed 27 lbs when she died. She was estimated at 15 years old when she was caught. She was probably stocked in 1937 as a yearling by Don Leney, which is about right give or take a year. This is a tremendous growth rate. Those carp naturally probably never ate anything bigger than a bloodworm.

She resided in Billy Lanes shop on London Road, Coventry for a few years.

Where she is now I do not know.

Redmire was dammed ca 1850 and was origionally stocked with trout for the residents of Bernithan Court to catch.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)

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Because the fish was not weighed in the presence of a member of the Rod Caught Record Fish Committee.

In fact it would probably have been difficult for one on these people to get into Bernithan, to say nothing of the amount of time Chris Yates fish would have had to have been sacked up.

The fish itself was not in good condition and apparently died of old age some weeks later. That particular fish had been caught several times before over a long period.
 
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