Apart from an ass - what's the law

Charles · May 29, 2006

I haven't fished for salmon since I was a teenager in Scotland the sixties but am getting back into wanting to.
Does the law "permit" me to go to the river (in England) without a salmon licence and without a fly (or any other form of bait - or even hook) to practise Spey casting?

Shrek · May 29, 2006

Hhmmm, tricky one that. At the moment you're OK to do that as it's salmon season, but for practising out of season I don't know.

I do know of people that tie up grass leaders to practice in a field or their local recreation ground. Also, those that use a still water for practice too. I know it's not going to give a true feel of running water but does suffice for most.

Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member) · May 29, 2006

Don't try spey casting or any other form of roll casting on dry land. It doesn't work.

Funnily enough I tried spey casting the other day, using a friend of mines outfit.

It's basically the same as roll casting except that you aim the cast high and out of the water. I spent some time watching Hywell Morgan demonstrating the cast at Chatsworth the other day.

It's basically easier to learn than the normal overhead cast with a single handed fly rod. With two hands on the butt it's surprising how much power you can develop.

Did anyone see the enormous distance cast put out by Hywell with his "Big Bertha" and I guess about a 12 weight shooting head. I reckon you need to wear a blinkin suit of armour with the visor closed when attempting to cast with that gear.

Hywell described how he was "lashed" on his back with the line on one occasion. The line cut though his jacket and went deep into his skin.

Now he knows what a Roman Scourge feels like.

Charles · May 29, 2006

The only way to Spey cast properly is on moving water. There is no other set of conditions which let you use the current to straighten the line downstream in preparation for the upstream lift - hence my question on the legality of practising on the river without fishing.
What was Mr Morgan using for running line - razor wire?

Bryan Baron 2 · May 29, 2006

Should have no problems just make sure ou have no hooks or flys with you. Saying that i would check with your club. Which you would have to have membership off. Some have very strange rules.

Alternativly get a licence. They do Season, Week and day licences. Available on line or at the PO.

Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member) · May 29, 2006

Charles,

For running line most of the tournament casters use 30lbs Stren. It wasn't the running line he was worried about, it was the actual shooting head bit.

The speed that the top casters can achieve with the head is astounding. Timing is the thing. I forget what Hywell Morgan's record is but it's something around 85 metres.

I used to be able to cast 45 metres with a 9 weight single handed rod, 10 metre head, using flattened Stren backing.

Actually, today, I surprised myself. I was using a standard weight 7 forward taper on Thrybergh reservoir and was chucking the whole lot off with about 2 metres of line beyond the rod tip with only two false casts. That's a 35 metre cast in anyone's books.

Not bad for an old fart approaching 65!!

Not only that, I caught 15 trout...

)

Charles · May 29, 2006

Why was the Stren flattened? And how?

And did the trout taste any good?

Shrek · May 30, 2006

What line were you using Ron?

Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member) · May 30, 2006

I was using a Michael Evans Arrowhead weight 7/8 floater on my Greys Platinum XD 10 foot 7 weight.

Honestly guys these lines are the best for general long casting on reservoirs that I have ever used short of a shooting head. And shooting heads do have a disadvantage in that often the shooting line has a tendency to sink.

Some years ago you could buy flattened mono. It was called "Tapeworm". But you can flatten nylon it yourself if you want. You want about 25 lbs bs.

Wind the line through a flat surface and an electric iron. Gauging the speed is easy. Too slow and the line melts!!

I think I must start a new thread on these Arrowhead lines.

keora · May 30, 2006

Even if the club or landowner responsible for the river gives you consent, you still might have problems if an EA bailiff catches you. In effect, you are equiped to catch fish.

keora · May 30, 2006

Even if the club or landowner responsible for the river gives you consent, you still might have problems if an EA bailiff catches you. In effect, you are equipped to catch fish. I'd make sure you have an EA trout licence as a minimum.

Fred Blake · May 30, 2006

It may just be me, but I think Charles is trying to ascertain whether he needs a salmon and migratory trout rod licence merely to practice spey casting.

One assumes that he will be doing this armed with a salmon rod so, if an EA official should chance upon him, he may be thought to be fishing for salmon rather than for trout - even though he is doing neither. He would theferore - in theory - need to be in possesion of a migratory licence to remain within the law.

Charles · May 31, 2006

Fred, exactly! I will fish in Scotland next season, where no rod licence is required. Do I actually have to spend ?65 on a licence to practice casting on an English river?

wilbert · May 31, 2006

I would say that if you are practicing your spey casts then as long as you don't have any flies on you I don't see why you would require a licence. The licence allows you to fish for certain species of fish providing you have permission from the land owner. Its not like a shotgun licence where you have to have one just to be in posetion of the equipment. I know plenty of people that have practiced out of salmon season with no hooks just a piece of brightly coloured wool so they can see if the leader is being anchored in the correct position when casting and is turning over correctly. With no hooks you are casting not fishing so do not need a licence.

Bryan Baron 2 · May 31, 2006

Alternativly practise on a river with no salmon stocks. Theres not many these days though.

Charles · Jun 26, 2006

Reply received from the EA:

Dear Mr. Adams,

Thank you for your enquiry regarding the above.

The relevant legislation (Section 27 of the Salmon and Freshwater
Fisheries Act 1975) says that you would be guilty of unlicenced fishing
if you fish for or take fish, or have in your possession equipment which
you are not entitled to use, without the relevant licence. As you say
that you will not be using any means of catching fish whilst you are
practising your casting, you could not be accused of 'fishing' for any
species of fish.

As you will not be fishing, you would not technically have right of
access to Environment Agency Fisheries. However, unless you were
inconveniencing anglers wanting to use the fishery, I do not think that
we would have any objections to you practising your technique.

For your information, the Environment Agency free fishery at Melverley
is currently closed for maintenance to the flood banks.

If you would like to clarify any point, or if you want further
information, please let me know.

Regards

Andy Roberts
Technical Officer (Fisheries)
Upper Severn Area

Fred Blake · Jun 26, 2006

Which tells you what exactly? That in theory you would be guilty of possession of the means to take fish (whether that was your intention or not) without a licence. Furthermore, if you could prove that you did not intend to catch fish (and thereby exonerate yourself from the first charge) you would be guilty of trespass! To further confuse the issue, the EA may or may not take issue with your unlawful presence, depending on whether another angler wanted your spot.

And what if the postulted other angler has no licence? Is he 'practicing his technique' too? If not, is he guilty of trespass as well as fishing without a licecnce, or does the fact that he intends to fish give him automatic access rights?

Charles · Jun 26, 2006

I think I'll toddle down to the EA free fihery type river and just go for it.
My non-migratory trout licence seems to cover me for access.
The fact that I will be practising Spey casting with a 15-foot double handed salmon rod may be anomalous but not "illegal".
Might as well add a team of trout wet flies while I'm at it.
Ain't Britain wonderful???

Bryan Baron 2 · Jun 26, 2006

I would keep a copy of the letter with you. As all baliffs might not see it the same way.

keora · Jun 26, 2006

The EA has a surprisingly lenient interpretation of the law. It seems that a poacher could fish with rod line fly ( or hook and bait) and then cut off the end of the line if a bailiff approaches. All he has to say is that he was practising casting, and according to the EA he's not breaking any law. Doesn't seem right to me.

Apart from an ass - what's the law

New member

Shrek

Guest

Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)

Guest

New member

Well-known member

Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)

Guest

New member

Shrek

Guest

Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)

Guest

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

New member

New member

Well-known member

New member

Well-known member

New member

Well-known member

Well-known member