Swan Lead Poisoning
- Thread starter GrahamM
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)
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The swan was most likely dying from old age.
Another cause of large numbers of swan deaths are overhead power lines. I saw a swan fly into some lines last year in the fens.
Another cause of large numbers of swan deaths are overhead power lines. I saw a swan fly into some lines last year in the fens.
Mark Hewitt
Senior Member
I agree Graham, Sweeping statements like that are out of order, where are the facts? He said somthing along the lines of "large lead weights are banned, all sizes should be" Correct me if I'm wrong but is it not the case that its the other way round - small lead shot are banned? If these people want to tarnish our sport should'nt they at least get their basic facts right!! The report sounded to me like bird was choking on somthing, nothing to do with anglers weights.
Jim Gibbinson
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The EA report on the link between swan deaths and anglers' use of lead shot and etc. is, I feel, well balanced. There were/are anomolies, but taken overall the circumstantial evidence suggests a link.
The incident regarding the swan in a West Yorkshire park is another matter - certainly it has emotive potential, but as evidence goes it presents a very poor case.
That angling is potentially hazardous to swans is undeniable: they get tangled in lines, and sometimes take baited-hooks. Injuries and deaths from these causes are, I suspect, more significant than those arising from lead poisoning (from whatever source).
The incident regarding the swan in a West Yorkshire park is another matter - certainly it has emotive potential, but as evidence goes it presents a very poor case.
That angling is potentially hazardous to swans is undeniable: they get tangled in lines, and sometimes take baited-hooks. Injuries and deaths from these causes are, I suspect, more significant than those arising from lead poisoning (from whatever source).
Graham Whatmore
Senior Member
Anglers are an easy target in a situation like this, every non fishing person who reads this will now believe anglers use lead weights illegally and cause the death of swans.
I've tried getting the Yorkshire Swan Rescue centre up on Google with a view to a few emails? but it doesn't come up, I did however put up the story and guess who it was that announced it? Thats right the BBC here. Now why doesn't that surprise me!
I've tried getting the Yorkshire Swan Rescue centre up on Google with a view to a few emails? but it doesn't come up, I did however put up the story and guess who it was that announced it? Thats right the BBC here. Now why doesn't that surprise me!
Graham Whatmore
Senior Member
Whilst browsing for the above story I also came across this it would seem anglers aren't so bad after all?
I have never understood why people like swans so much, yes they are graceful looking creatures and they are an attractive white but swans are resposible for the death of many many water birds. We have a mixture of ducks, geese and two resident swans on our local town lake and the male swan will kill any baby or bird that comes near it in the breeding season. The adults usually have a chance of getting away but the young fall victim very easily, they do this by grabbing them and holding them under water till they drown. Woe betide any strange swan that happens to be about as well because the male will kill it for sure. Nasty vicious creatures are swans.
I have never understood why people like swans so much, yes they are graceful looking creatures and they are an attractive white but swans are resposible for the death of many many water birds. We have a mixture of ducks, geese and two resident swans on our local town lake and the male swan will kill any baby or bird that comes near it in the breeding season. The adults usually have a chance of getting away but the young fall victim very easily, they do this by grabbing them and holding them under water till they drown. Woe betide any strange swan that happens to be about as well because the male will kill it for sure. Nasty vicious creatures are swans.
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Nigel Connor(ACA ,SAA)
Guest
OK so it might have been a lead dredged up by the Swan which predated the ban.Had to read to the end to get that little snippet.Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
I'd be interested to see the weight of the lead found.
I'd be interested to see the weight of the lead found.
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)
Guest
At this time of the year, swans can become very aggressive. I am sure they kill enormous numbers of other water birds.
Quite honestly I don't know of any other wild creature that is as arrogant as a swan. No, not even any of Africa's big five, nor any species of snake.
Well perhaps driver ants!
Quite honestly I don't know of any other wild creature that is as arrogant as a swan. No, not even any of Africa's big five, nor any species of snake.
Well perhaps driver ants!
C
Chris Pearson
Guest
Ron,
I was on a canal near Barnsley last week and kindly fed a swan a few maggots,big mistake, it wouldn't leave me alone,kept pecking my foot!!!
I was on a canal near Barnsley last week and kindly fed a swan a few maggots,big mistake, it wouldn't leave me alone,kept pecking my foot!!!
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)
Guest
I am very much against feeding wild birds anything. It's a complete mistake and in the long term it is very inhumane.
All wild animals have their own ways of finding food. Make them dependent on food from ourselves and you can cause all sorts of problems.
In the big game reserves of Africa, if you are caught feeding any animal or bird, you can get arrested and jailed.
All wild animals have their own ways of finding food. Make them dependent on food from ourselves and you can cause all sorts of problems.
In the big game reserves of Africa, if you are caught feeding any animal or bird, you can get arrested and jailed.
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John McLaren
Guest
Even worse Ron, One guy I know died as a result of trying to feed the animals - something he disagreed with ate him! 
Getting back to the original thread, why am I not amazed to see any form of rebuttal argument either from people like the NFA or FACT?
Here we have a classic example of a less than complimentary story about "anglers" appearing on the BBC web site with absoultely no response from ANY of the organisational bodies.
The story is now "out there" for all and sundry to read and in the majority of cases (as ill informed as they are) there are all sorts of people who now believe that anglers lead weights still kill swans.
The BBC, as 'anti' as they appear, are nonethelss obliged to offer a balanced view, so when will one of our organisations get up off their collective backsides and counter these rather ridiculous accusations?
Here's a clue - DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH!
Here we have a classic example of a less than complimentary story about "anglers" appearing on the BBC web site with absoultely no response from ANY of the organisational bodies.
The story is now "out there" for all and sundry to read and in the majority of cases (as ill informed as they are) there are all sorts of people who now believe that anglers lead weights still kill swans.
The BBC, as 'anti' as they appear, are nonethelss obliged to offer a balanced view, so when will one of our organisations get up off their collective backsides and counter these rather ridiculous accusations?
Here's a clue - DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH!
Graham Whatmore
Senior Member
A good observation Peter but I despair of the BBC in regards to angling. They trot out the same rubbish and blatant lies at every opportunity knowing full well that no one can argue with them and despite being told on more than one occasion that they are wrong they continue to spread the same lies and anti angling attitude that they have always done.
Where the hell is Guy Fawkes when you need him?
Where the hell is Guy Fawkes when you need him?
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)
Guest
Stop paying your TV Licence Graham.
Old Guido was Hanged Drawn and Quartered.
Old Guido was Hanged Drawn and Quartered.
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Nigel Connor(ACA ,SAA)
Guest
Graham,
The media generally get things wrong or put a particular slant on things and its not confined to angling.Its the way they operate these days.Their role is not to report the news but to make it and then report it.
On this issue, we perhaps need to keep an open mind as to whether the swan has been injured by ingesting a lead weight.It's not impossible is it?I'm not sure a knee jerk denial that it has not is the best response.
As Peter says we need a body to investigate the facts with the swan rescue place and issue an appropriate release to the BBC.They are then more likely to print that than if they had to seek out an angling body themselves for comment.I wouldn't know which body to contact for such a comment so how would the BBC?
The lack of media savvy of our sport has been a source of common complaint on here but I do not see any improvement.
The media generally get things wrong or put a particular slant on things and its not confined to angling.Its the way they operate these days.Their role is not to report the news but to make it and then report it.
On this issue, we perhaps need to keep an open mind as to whether the swan has been injured by ingesting a lead weight.It's not impossible is it?I'm not sure a knee jerk denial that it has not is the best response.
As Peter says we need a body to investigate the facts with the swan rescue place and issue an appropriate release to the BBC.They are then more likely to print that than if they had to seek out an angling body themselves for comment.I wouldn't know which body to contact for such a comment so how would the BBC?
The lack of media savvy of our sport has been a source of common complaint on here but I do not see any improvement.
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)
Guest
Same thing should happen with Blair, Prescott and Brown.
Especially Prescott, can you imagine the snaps, crackles and pops when they burn Prescotts guts in front of him.
Especially Prescott, can you imagine the snaps, crackles and pops when they burn Prescotts guts in front of him.
Deanos
Well-known member
It?s a great shame you weren?t alive to enjoy the Spanish inquisition Ron!?you would have loved it I am sure! )).
)).
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mark williams 4
Guest
Personally, I wouldn't care if mute swans were a rarity. There should be a shooting seasion for them - just think of the drumsticks!
It was significant back in the '80s when I wrote a lot about lead poisoning of swans that the majority of problems (and lead weights DO poison swans) were on navigable waterways.
I spoke to one scientist at the RSPB who categorically told me that if the wash from boats hadn't silted the gravels so badly, swans could find all the small stones they needed. On silt, the only small, hard objects in the upper layers were discarded shot, below, the gravel the swans sought.
He also commented that he had never seen a lead-poisoned swan on a gravel pit. But of course when I asked him for this on the record, he told me his evidence was unscientific.
It is undoubtedly daft to go spreading lead through the countryside willy nilly, but we aren't any more. The swan lovers had their day, and should concentrate their efforts on something important, like the fate of rarer birds.
It was significant back in the '80s when I wrote a lot about lead poisoning of swans that the majority of problems (and lead weights DO poison swans) were on navigable waterways.
I spoke to one scientist at the RSPB who categorically told me that if the wash from boats hadn't silted the gravels so badly, swans could find all the small stones they needed. On silt, the only small, hard objects in the upper layers were discarded shot, below, the gravel the swans sought.
He also commented that he had never seen a lead-poisoned swan on a gravel pit. But of course when I asked him for this on the record, he told me his evidence was unscientific.
It is undoubtedly daft to go spreading lead through the countryside willy nilly, but we aren't any more. The swan lovers had their day, and should concentrate their efforts on something important, like the fate of rarer birds.
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Budgie Burgess
Guest
As was pointed out during a discussion on this same topic the swan could well have died from anglers split shot!
Whats fatty on about I can hear you saying!Its been banned (I prefer the term "not used" as lets remember that it was anglers who agreed on this before any official legislation was brought in)for many years now.BUT as someone rightly pointed out to me,lead doesnt just dissolve in water so swans etc could still be picking it up years after it got there!
I wont get in to the lead shot debate as I still think the whole issue was flawed.Strange how some of the biggest campaigners for banning it were the substitute manufacturers!
Same as others say one shot gun cartridge contains more shot than most anglers would use in a life time.And of a size more likely to be picked up by birds for digestive purposes.
Anyone seen any bans on lead in shotgun cartridges then? No I bet not because the shooting fraternity has a bit more back bone than us.
The only good thing that I hope comes from this is that those who still think we can apease/side with the antis by banning livebaiting,the use of keepnets or whatever will see that it will do no good as anglers will still get the blame.After all we are still being publicly acused of "swan mudering" despite giving it up.Why? because these people simpley dont want angling in any way shape or form.
Stuff em! dont give them any more concessions.Let us as anglers run our own sport in the way we feel is responsible and correct.
Whats fatty on about I can hear you saying!Its been banned (I prefer the term "not used" as lets remember that it was anglers who agreed on this before any official legislation was brought in)for many years now.BUT as someone rightly pointed out to me,lead doesnt just dissolve in water so swans etc could still be picking it up years after it got there!
I wont get in to the lead shot debate as I still think the whole issue was flawed.Strange how some of the biggest campaigners for banning it were the substitute manufacturers!
Same as others say one shot gun cartridge contains more shot than most anglers would use in a life time.And of a size more likely to be picked up by birds for digestive purposes.
Anyone seen any bans on lead in shotgun cartridges then? No I bet not because the shooting fraternity has a bit more back bone than us.
The only good thing that I hope comes from this is that those who still think we can apease/side with the antis by banning livebaiting,the use of keepnets or whatever will see that it will do no good as anglers will still get the blame.After all we are still being publicly acused of "swan mudering" despite giving it up.Why? because these people simpley dont want angling in any way shape or form.
Stuff em! dont give them any more concessions.Let us as anglers run our own sport in the way we feel is responsible and correct.