Fixed Spool Reels

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john ledger

Guest
Hope this does not sound a bit stupid but are fixed spool reels becoming too good and actually causing problems.
I own a fair share of reels from the very expensive to moderately priced ones.
Take the Daiwa 2500a which i use for stick float fishing and light lines,actually is so smooth it spins like a centre pin and can create problems. Shimano Stradic 4000 is very similiar.
The other day i was fishing a lake for crucians and actually used the Okuma which was a free gift from Coarse Fisherman and was pleasantly suprised on how good the reel was apart from the rear drag which i dont like.
This reel was going to be a gift to my grandson Owen but it looks like his grandad might just be hanging on a bit
 
B

Budgie Burgess

Guest
Surely nothing can be "to good" John?

Maybe you meant "too free spinning"?
If so then to a certain degree I would agree that some modern reels are possibley "over engineered" there not being a real practical application for such ultra smoothness and all the ball bearings as this surely just adds extra cost.

Or is this done to create market hype? look at Shimanos "anti wobble" campaign and how many potential reel purchasers are influenced by the "number of ball bearings" etc etc?
 
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john ledger

Guest
Think you have hit he nail on the head Budgie regarding the amount of bearings actually being used plus all the hype.
No i would not like to go back to the old reels apart from the old Mitchell Match or Otomatic(as the one i had was called) which was well ahead of its time or the Aerial pin.
The other load of rubbish is the twist buster which i find absolutely U/S
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)

Guest
I don't think that fixed spool reels are over engineered at all. The smoother the better in my opinion. Compare the drag of a top class Shimano with the horrible reels of the past.

"Twist Buster". That's just a hype word for a line roller that rolls. There will always be line twist imparted when you reel in. Unfortunately most tackle manufacturers have to address Joe Soap when it comes to advertising, and as we all know, the average Joe Soap is thick!
 
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Chris Bishop

Guest
I like chunky, well-engineered kit you can just forget you're using. Modern stuff's far better, can't see how things like reels can be over-engineered.
 
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Fred Blake

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Ball bearings are one of my pet hates. I expect they have all kinds of uses in many applications, but reels are not one of them.

I have a Shimano Aero Match reel which is utterly useless; apart from the fact the thing spins if a weasel farts within a hundred yards, the spool only takes 100 yards of three pound line - yet the reel itself is bigger than a Mitchell. I can't reach the spool rim comfortably when trotting, the clutch is average and the high speed retrieve causes all manner of tangles - aided and abetted by those blasted ball bearings causing it to spin randomly unless the anti-reverse is engaged.

No, I've gone back to my beloved Mitchell. It has the best gearing of any reel ever, the gear ratio is high enough for my needs without causing line twist, it's a comfortable size and I know it won't let me down. Plus, I can take the whole thing apart for cleaning and put it back together without finding I have half a dozen curiously-shaped items left over.

No ball bearings in a Mitchell - and I can't see how it would be improved by having any. As Budgie says, they are just a sales gimmick.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)

Guest
One must understand that modern fixed spool reels are not made for the UK market which is tiny compared to the titanic market in the USA. In that country, fixed spool reels - called "spinning reels" are used for spinning and lure fishing for species that in the main are bigger and more hard fighting than most fish in the UK.

That's where the development lies.
 
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Budgie Burgess

Guest
Line twist and line rollers. Please correct me if some one actually KNOWS (rather than just read in the latest edition of Total Crap or whatever)I had been under the impression that reel "engineers" had been battling to eliminate line twist for years.Their theory being that the problem was caused by the line rollers on the bail arm/pick up not rotating as they were intended to.The "Holy Grail" for many years therefore had been to develop a line roller that actually "rolled"! However when they ere able to engineer one that did it caused even more twist!

Admitedly some of the most recent models have much different line rollers now,tending to be much larger diametered such as the Daiwa's with "Twist Buster".Not used them so cant comment.As I use braided mainlines line twist isnt a problem on any reel I use be it Mitchell 300S's or Shimano 6010's. But that said it was never a major issue with mono as long as you loaded it right.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)

Guest
Line rollers.

Most of the better modern FS reels have large diameter line rollers mounted on ball bearings. They roll make no mistake.

They don't eliminate line twist, but can indeed lessen it. Every time the bail arm turns on a FS reel it imparts a twist into the line. When you cast, the twist is taken out.

When the line is taken by a fish against the clutch, the twist in the line is retained. If the roller in the bail arm did not roll and you wind in under load or a fish, the friction on the pick up would tend to concentrate the line twists in the bit of line cast out.

The effect of the roller is to prevent this happening of course as well as preventing heat by friction which might cause the line to weaken. I say might, as a wet line will tend to stay cool.

The early line roller wheels were small diameter and many of them didn't roll. By increasing the diameter of the wheel, which puts more line in contact with the roller wheel, and adding a ball bearing, the roller wheel rolls.

A big advantage over the old reels such as Mitchells make no mistake.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)

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The first reel with a line roller was the Intrepid Elite which came out about 1960. The man who nagged KP Morritts, a British firm to do this was of course our old friend Richard Walker.

Those first line rollers were technically flawed as the roller was too small in diameter, had no ball bearing and would often stick or jam.

I think it was ABU with their Cardinal reels who were first to design line rollers that worked, followed by Shimano. A really effective roller is actually quite a recent development. I have a Shimano Aero GTM 4010 purchased in 1993 were the roller is set on a PTFE bush, not a ball bearing.
 
M

Michael Townsend 3

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I love my Shimano Aero match reel, but my fingers are longish.
What I like on a match reel is a long shallow spool so you can load the spool to the brim with 100m of 2lb line instead of 300m.
I've noticed modern reels have slightly shorter deeper spools probably because of the heavier line now being used on the comercials.
I would like to see reel manufacturers produce a range of spools for a reel from very shallow to deep so the user can buy to meet their needs.
I can second Johns coments on his free Okuma. Incredible reel for the money (If you buy one)
 
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Sean Meeghan

Guest
Ron's right about the US driving reel development. I used to fish in the States quite regularly a few years ago and in the Autumn I fished for Salmon on Lake Huron. This involved spinning with plugs and spoons around 2 oz. I was absolutley gobsmacked at how quickly I wore out a Cardinal C5 reel. Since then I've not been too suprised at how the number of ball and roller bearings in fixed spool reels have gradually increased. Remember in most circumstances a roller bearing is better than a ball bearing which is better than a plain bearing.

I've certainly noticed an improvement in 'twist busting' on reels over the past few years. I've standardised on Diawa BTR reels for all my heavier reels and I've several of the 4050 model going back over a few years. Its quite noticable that the later models give a lot less line twist than the earlier ones.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)

Guest
The reason for improved "twist busting" on reels is of course a line roller pulley wheel that really works. The fixed spool reel will never eliminate line twist, that's impossible.

Unless someone invents a magic reel. Maybe Harry Potter should design one.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)

Guest
And I think you will find Sean that these days, when it comes to lures over 1 oz, most Americans use baitcasting (multiplying) reels.

No line twist with these reels of course.
 
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Sean Meeghan

Guest
As I do myself Ron! They are also more robust. I've been using an Abu 6501 for several years now for jerk bait fishing and it feels as good as new.
 
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Sean Meeghan

Guest
As to what causes line twist I think there is more than one factor involved here. Its noticable that modern reels that combat it effectively also have a groove in the line roller and a tapered cross section. I have heard that this works by stopping the line moving across the roller on the retrieve, but I can't for the life of me see how this causes twist. Seems to work though!
 
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Sean Meeghan

Guest
Thinking about it it might be due to a build up of water in the groove which lubricates things and allows the line to rotate as it passes over the roller.

I suspect we are seeing an evolved solution here which the reel engineers don't quite understand themselves
 
J

john ledger

Guest
Nice one Sean(real engineer)
That makes two of us mate,we are a rare breed that should be cherished,other FM members should bow to our greater being and outstanding knowledge(now where did i put me false teeth and glasses)
The Shimano Aero match a reel that needed a finger about 6 inches long to reach the spool had problems with line twist and Shimano engineers offered this wonder full piece of advice,loctite the line roller.
If memory serves did not the Mitchel match spin in an oppositr direction to modern reels and i agree with Fred its never been beaten
 
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