The Blood Knot.

Neil Maidment

Neil Maidment

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Listening to John Wilson at The CLA Game Fair last weekend, he was very dismissive of the blood knot and it's derivatives.

I've used the blood knot, full, half, tucked etc since I started fishing 40+ years ago.

Will someone please update me on the best knots to use, particularly when attaching eyed hooks, swivels etc (using mono up to about 8lbs)??

Ta ever so!
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)

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The best knot for nylon (polyamide) monos in my opinion is the Grinner knot. It's far better than the half blood knot.

For attaching eyed hooks, the knotless knot is also good.

For fluorocarbon you cannot beat the knotless knot or the palermo knot. Just as good is the half blood without the tuck.
 
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John Huntley

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Right as usual Ron. I gave up with blood knots a long time ago.
 
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Phil Hackett disability bad speller with Pride

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Blood knots are strangulation knots end of.....!
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)

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Except that they are perhaps the best knot for tying a fly to fluorocarbon Phil.

No more than 5 turns, don't tuck it.

Don't ask me why, but the ordinary 1/2 blood is brilliant with this stuff just as it is useless for nylon.

We have discovered that PVDF has a strange property. Strangle it and it gets stronger.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)

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Sorry Sean. I've got that place on the brain at the moment.

PALOMAR!
 
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Phil Hackett disability bad speller with Pride

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Rubbish Ron blood knot for floro are crap!
 
S

Sean Meeghan

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I've never found a reliable knot for fluorocarbon so I've stopped using it for Barbel fishing. OK for Trout and Chub though.

Going to experiment with knot lubricant as I suspect that its coefficient of friction is quite high.
 
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Fred Blake

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I agree that the half blood - tucked or otherwise - is not as reliable as the grinner for swivels or eyed hooks. However, for joining two pieces of nylon - such as a tapered leader in fly fishing - the four-turn blood knot is fine. I don't know why, because every other 'authority' says it is no good; for me, it works fine*. I can trim the snag ends right up to the knot so it doesn't pick up weed, which is not so easy with the more commonly used surgeon's knot, also known as the water or Cove knot.

The palomar is an odd one; I find it works with some brands of nylon and not others. Sometimes it won't tighten up properly and when it does you get a curly bit near the hook - which means re-tying it. It's fine with braided lines however, though I still prefer the grinner for hooks and swivels.

*Addendum to above: the two pieces of line must be of similar diameter; more than about 15 percent difference and the surgeon's knot is best.
 
Neil Maidment

Neil Maidment

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Grinner it is then!

Thanks Fred, I'm sort of glad there's someone else out there who's had the inconsistency of knots with different brands of mono.

Right then, how do you tie a grinner?
 
Graham Whatmore

Graham Whatmore

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I use 'son of a gun' for lubricating my knots, its what I used to lubricate my pole elastic when I was match fishing, brilliant stuff and lasts forever. I think it contains a small amount of silicone but since I've started using it on my fluorocarbon knots I've had no problems with breakages at all, in fact I use it on every line now.
 
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Fred Blake

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The diagrams and desription of the grinner are actually of the simplified version; the original is tricky to tie but leaves all the straight parts trapped beneath the turns.

Basically, once the line is threaded twice through the eye of the hook (or swivel) the tag end is taken around the main line five times in loose turns and the end is brought back in a wide loop to lie pointing back up the mainline. This loop is then wrapped around the mainline and tag end in the reverse direction, taking out the five turns originally put in.

If you are familiar with the needle knot - used to attach backing or leader to a flyline - it follows the same principle.
 
Neil Maidment

Neil Maidment

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Thanks all, I know and use the needle knot. So why didn't I make the connection with the grinner???
 
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Fred Blake

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There's no reason why you should - the grinner is usually described as shown on the links above.

Even though this is technically 'wrong', this version is easier to tie and seems perfectly sound, provided the line is passed twice through the eye. I have had four and five turn knots fail when only one turn is taken through the eye; conversely I have found you can get away with just two turns after taking it through twice.

It was in the interests of accuracy that I though I'd try and describe the original version.
 
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Podfisha

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I have been testing the improved half blood knot in my garage. (The one where you pass it through the bottom loop and then back through). What I have found is that if it has 5 turns for mono and 8 turns for braid, is moistened and tightened down properly, it does not let go or break at the hook under tension. Each time the line broke at whatever I was pulling it with. (I wrapped the other end around a pair of smooth needle nose pliers and then a broomstick). I’m not saying the line won’t snap at the hook if too much pressure is applied or the line is damaged in someway at that point, all I’m saying is that if it’s tied and tensioned correctly the testing indicated to me that this blood knot does not fail and is more than reliable. Given the ease of tying that knot I thought why wouldn’t anglers just use it. Anyway, I encourage people to test for themselves, this is just my conclusion.
??
 
Wakou

Wakou

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I am in the same stuation as the OP. I learned to tie the seven turn 1/2 blood and tuck when I was in my youth. Try as I might, I can't seem to be able to learn or even tie ONCE any of the others (except the Palomar). I have tried, even to the point of being reduced to tears of frustration.
I have ended using a swivel and tying blood knots to that. Obviously useless if I need for the join to pass through the eyes of the rod.
There is a wonderful chap on You-Tube, who calls himself Andrew's Knots (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1_RavlUpgmdg53gZ78JZTw). Despite the name, he seems to use 'the perfection loop' for virtually every purpose. I was thinking of trying to learn that and have done with it.
ps. My attempts so far have been in a warm room, with a proper intense-daylight reading lamp, forceps, magnifying glass, heavy(ish) lines, inc flouro, braid and mono, etc etc.
I have a nail-knot tool, and have failed to acheive an acceptable knot with that.
The idea of tying ie 2lb bs mono to 4lb flouro on the bankside, in the dark with cold hands etc, is an impossible dream.
How do other elderly and arthritic types manage?
pps, I am not THAT elderly, (59), nor am I actually arthritic.
But I am in genuine despair!
 
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