Hooklengths for Barbel

It was interesting to read that Sean Meeghan in his fine article, 'Barbel From Yorkshire Rivers' say that he uses 4 inch braided hooklengths.

Over many years now I've gone through all the permutations of materials and lengths and I'm still not convinced that any of them make much, if any, difference.

Yet we have Sean saying 4 inches of braid and equally experienced barbel angler Ron Clay saying elsewhere that he swears by long (at least 2ft) hooklengths.

And both of them are very successful anglers.

We know that barbel behave differently that most other coarse fish when they pick up a bait, usually mouthing it directly off the deck with little if any sucking and blowing.

So is there a (generally) correct hooklength type and length for barbel?

Or is it a case of using something that suits the angler rather than the fish?

And are there not so many instances of this in fishing?

Bloody good question Graham,i shall be watching this thread with great interest.

To be honest. I am useing hooklengths of no more than 6-8" for all of my fishing nowadays.
wether it be Barbel, Tench, Chub, Perch, or Roach. and also like Sean, much smaller sized baits and hooks.
I have had some cracking Barbel on size 12 Drennan super specialist hooks. The strange thing is that for over a year now the smaller sized hooks/baits give me more confidence.

I'm currently using feeder and method feeder tactics for barbel and therefore using a short (braid) hooklength to keep the hookbait close to the free feed. I'm catching barbel.

Not so long ago I went through a phase of feeding with PVA bags hooked onto the hook, which was on a long, 2ft-plus, hooklength of fluorocarbon or nylon. I caught barbel.

In the past I've used all permutations of the above two methods and caught barbel.

Interesting question. Maybe it has something to do with them fishing different types of Rivers - the Trent being wider and faster, whilst Yorkshire rivers are narrower and less powerful in the main? Maybe shorter links and backleading don't work so well on the Trent? Maybe it's just a confidence thing -it's worked for them, so they've stuck with it? Maybe the rig has very little influence on their catchrate and it's their skill at locating fish without spooking them and getting them feeding that gives them their outstanding results?

Bill

In my opinion, more important than the hooklength is the line on the other side of the lead/feeder. Barbel that have been pressured will shy away from a line that climbs up through the water from your weight.

I have watched barbel as they locate a weight then move three or four feet away from it and feed with confidence, I am not suggesting that we use four foot hooklengths but all possible steps should be taken to hide the weight and line that spooks them with a backlead or whatever.

Having said that, loads of fish get caught on some of the most basic rigs and and big, obvious baits.

Good one Graham, Sean uses 4" Braid hook lengths but has the feeder or lead a couple of feet away using a line stop as I read it. Two years ago after fishing the Trent fish-in I started using longer hook length having watched Ron, Matt and company as a result my catch rates plummeted on the Swale. I have now gone back to hook lengths of less than 12? and as short as 4? and I?m catching again. If I ever get around to doing any more fishing this year I am tempted to try even shorter ones. Top Carp anglers use 1? to 2? hook length without a second thought.
I can remember fishing the Severn many years ago having the hook right on the side of the feeder as the Barbel and Chub would attack the feeder as soon as it hit the water. So putting a short hook length and lead into a PVA bag and chucking it out isn?t so far from that.

I generally use about 18" - 24" hooklengths, either flouro or braid depending on light values and the swim with these pinned down ever 4" with 'drop-em' putty when feeder fishing.

With a straight lead and pva bag I use about 6" hooklengths.

On the Trent i use 2ft of braid (stripteaze).Reasons are its sinks,lays flat and has good abrasion.I use 2ft because there all ways alot of weed coming down the river and i dont want the hookbait masked by weed.I also use a stop knot 3ft above the feeder to catch the weed.If the river is running clear i will use a shorter hook length.If i start loosing feeders i switch to mono hooklengths to save loosing the feeder in the snags.

Anyone remember the (Band of Gold Rig for barbel fishing?
It was a feature some years ago in IYCF.
It consisted of the hook being trapped tight alongside the feeder with an elastic band.
Now that's what you call short.

At the recent Collingham fish in I was using about 3' of fluorocarbon, as was my mate, we couldn't buy a bite on anything else, or should I say nothing worked until we tried that, obviously we stuck with it but it all may have been coincidence.

I think it depends on whether the fish have been caught before of not. Geoff is right and I use a minimum of about 18 inches, but often use up to 3 ft. The reason is, as Dave Burr says, that barbel can spook if they see line and will either leave the swim or feed some distance away. If I'm fishing in the margins and can sink the line I'll use a fairly short hook length. If I'm fishing across the river and/or in deeper water I'll use a longer hooklength. I've learned the hard way that it pays to nail the hook length down.

I use a short length of braid attached by a small swivel or rig ring to my main line. Keeping the braid short minimises the abrasion from weed, etc and one hook link will last me ages unless I catch a chub. Chub have the ability to wear braid very rapidly and I find that it is vital to check the hook link after every Chub.

I've just finished a piece on fishing low, clear rivers in which I set out my thinking on this subject.

Incidentally my mate Mick Beecroft is coming round to the opinion that he catches more fish on fluorocarbon because it spooks the Barbel when it picks up the bait. He thinks that I get a lot of missed pick ups. This theory does make some sense in that I get a lot of little twitches and pulls before I get a proper Bite when I use 'lumpy paste'. Again I describe this method in a later article.

As to using a short hook length, Im sure that if the Barbel doesn't see the line, or doesn't spook on seeing the line then this method is perfectly successful. The only worry I have is that I don't know how many fish have been spooked.

To give credit where it is due. A lot of my thinking on hook lengths and line is based on observations of Barbel behaviour by Mick Wood and Jon Wolfe, backed up by my own observations over the past year or so. Myself and Mick Beecroft tend to swap ideas a lot and we now both use similar methods. The common factor is main line on the bottom, light weights and and a nailed down hook length.

Dear Graham,

Barbel know your line is there whether it is sunk or not. By the same token they detect all types of line known to angling. Even totally blind fish have other senses that can detect the presence of line. And hooks, leads, feeders etc.

My advice is stick with what catches and in the case of barbel, thats almost everything you cast out to them. The alternative is going round and around like a mad Jack Russel terrier chasing a tail that doesn't exist.

Regards,

Lee.

My first experiences of barbel were on the royalty fishery on the Avon.
I always think back to the time when I could see a group of barbel working upstream to my bait in slackish water near the bank at the telegraph swim. They would often nudge the loose fed knobs of cheese and only if they trundled downstream would the barbel take them. Time and again, my bait would be the last item of food approached. The fish were in a state of excitement and would approach the bait only to turn away time and time again . Eventually one plucked up the courage to nudge the bait. Of course, being tethered, it didn't roll downstream and so the whole performance continued...again and again
Eventually, I solved the problem by winding lead wire around the hook shank and moulding my cheese around this. The next barbel nudged the bait, which rolled downstream, whereupon the fish immediately turned and nailed it and just about took the rod out of my hand.

I often, when confronted by low water conditions like we have now, think about these days. So when I'm strugging and sometimes just as an experiment, I use around a 4' tail to alow a bit of movement of the bait. I certainly don't think I catch fewer fish as a result.
Having said that, I keep an open mind. It is just unfortunate that I don't have access to a clear water barbel river to watch the reaction of the fish. There is no better way to learn. I must say I miss the royalty as I learned so much from watching the reaction of the fish there.
I'm hoping to get back down in October to refresh some memories.

The other great point in favour of a long tail is when rolling a bait under willows. Cast across without feathering line. Bait follows lead (or plasticine)and bait trundles downstream into the willow roots on a 5 foot tail. Slam!

I don't much care whether I use nylon or fluoro. My mates who have been murdering the Ribble barbel recently, tell me fluoro is king, but I don't really see any difference other than the stiffness factor.
Braid? I really don't know. Maybe my trip to the Hants. Avon will teach me another lesson or two.

The consensus seems to be that it is not so much the hooklength itself which spooks the barbel but the line from weight to rod top going through the water at an acute angle.
The longer the hooklength then the less apparent this is to the barbel.

The alternative is to pin the line down behind the weight by a back lead.

The question arises therefore that as long as the line from weight to tip is unobtrusive does it much matter what type of line is used for the hooklength?

As seen in the Korda video's, useing a back lead doesn't always work as we like to think it does.
There are all kinds of obstructions and undulations on the river bed that we don't know about. Unless we are fishing crystal clear water. But then again it only takes the smallest of bumps to lift the line up.

Has any one tried lead cored line intead of back lead?

Personally I refuse to be dogmatic on this subject. But maybe after having caught barbel from 13 different UK rivers, I can tell you what works for me.

The day I started using fluorocarbon hooklengths was the day I started catching lots more barbel. And that goes for both day and nightime fishing. On the Severn and Warks Avon I used an 8lb fluoro hook length of about 14 inches. Then I watched Des Taylor lump out a pile of barbel at Bewdley using a 3 foot hook length. I followed suit and my catch rate increased markedly.

On the Trent, I generally use a 10lbs bs fluorocarbon 4 foot hook length. It's a swine to cast any distance, but seeing that you don't have to cast far on most Trent swims it doesn't matter.

I am convinced that barbel are spooked by the line entering the water at a high angle which is near to the bait. So I keep the bait away from the lead by using a long hook length. This is also very effective when you fish upstream, which I have done a great deal of over the years.

Ron - which brand of fluorocarbon hooklength do you use?