Rod strengths

Ok, iv read through a lot of things about carp rods but I have a question about test curves.

Is the test curve to do with the strength of the rod for casting heavy weight or for landing heavy fish?

Basically I want to buy a relatively cheap rod but Id still love to be able to land a 20/30lb carp if i hooked one.

Any help and tips would be very much appreciated. As you can probably tell, I am beginner. I have done a bit of carp fishing but nothing over 12lbs.

Thanks all!

i have the same question also. i dont know what test curve to get. my fishing is from mere feet in the margins up to perhaps 100yds. usually no more than 2oz of weight. some of my fishing is in some prety snaggy areas. i can bait them away but as soon as they are hooked its straight to the sunken logs and trees. most fish are from small 2 to 3lbs upwards to 20, but with a real shot of 30's or 40's also when there is alot of current, i've had run out into the current , turn sideways and let the current take them down stream. so they need to be fairly strong rods. i would pair them up with shimano baitrunners.

Looks like some of your carp fishing problems were similar to mine in South Africa years ago.

In theory, the test curve of a fishing rod is the force required to deflect the rod such that the tip forms a tangent to the line which is at 90 degrees to the handle of the rod. In practice this is not possible to attain. although we can come close to it.

The test curve gives a general guide as to what line you could use with that rod. The way to calculate this is to multiply the test curve loading by 5. If the TC is 2 1/2 lbs the line should be 12 1/2 lbs. I actual fact you could easily use lines of up to 20 lbs test with such a rod.

The test curve will not decide how far you can cast with a rod. What will is the taper, a fast taper being able to throw a weight farther than a through action rod. Here we reach the point where test curves can become meaningless. A very fast taper tip action rod having a test curve of 2 lbs can be far more powerful in terms of distance casting than a 2lbs slow, through action rod. Although the latter can be better for handling big fish.

Stopping hard fighting carp from reaching snags at distance is a major problem and often if you use skull hauling tactics you can pull the fishes lips off.

A 45 degree pull on the carp can swing it off line, but you must run along the shore if you can to do this.

Another way is to set the hook as soon as the fish takes the bait, and then prevent the fish getting up to speed by holding on hard and walking backwards. If the fish has achieved velocity and momentum, it will probably reach the snags.

Good Luck

Super advise and very well explained Ron!


If you want to think a little out of the box and do things a little differently to the the hordes of ultra cult carpers. perhaps think of using a 1.5 or 1.75 test rod and match this with 8lb line. The line is thinner and will cast a fair distance, a through action rod will cusion the lower breaking strain line.

I would argue that 8lb line is in fact more than adequate to land carp of any size in UK waters. I would only consider using heavier if snags involving hit and hold tactics or abraisive lake beds (e.g. zebra mussesls) are a problem. the only benefit in my eyes to using 12 or 15lb line is that it offers better abraision resistance. If you don't believe me, take a 2.75lb test rod and some 8lb line. tie the line to an object on the ground. Bend into the line with all your strength using the fighting curve of the rod - you will be surprised, i doubt you can snap it!

Could never understand why anglers using flouro line actually go up a few pounds in breaking straion due to the advertised properties of the line being invisible either (thats another thread).

Fish lighter (obviously be sensible here - not near the sunken branch etc) you will get more takes and better still, you will land them all the same.

I do fish heavier in weedy lakes. If a fish weeds its self, obviously you cant pull the weed bed on to the bank - but if you keep the rod bent into the fish under tension, 9 times out of the ten the fish will 'kick' setting itself free from the weed and you will get them in. takes patience - sometimes upto 40 mins, but its worth it.

chav professor said:

If you want to think a little out of the box and do things a little differently to the the hordes of ultra cult carpers. perhaps think of using a 1.5 or 1.75 test rod and match this with 8lb line. The line is thinner and will cast a fair distance, a through action rod will cusion the lower breaking strain line.

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And the ideal rod for this is the Fishing Magic Concept rod - 11 feet of pure compound tapered "magic" manufactured by Harrison Advanced Rods in Liverpool!

1 1/2 lbs TC with a 22 inch cork handle, down locking reel seat and SiC rings.



---------- Post added at 01:00 ---------- Previous post was at 00:43 ----------

Point here Chav.

Yesturday my hook length was horribly smashed by what I supect was a vigourous male tench. I was using 6lbs Daiwa Sensor main line with 5 lbs "super duper" hook length line tied onto the swivel and no 12 barbless super specialist hook using grinner knots.

I changed from the hook length material I was trying out to 5 lbs Incognito fluorocarbon using simple half blood knots. I hooked what turned out to be a male tench of a few ounces short of 5 lbs that went link stink for the reedmace. I put on maximum pressure and the rod nearly doubled up, but I turned the tench and netted it.

What a truly remarkable rod the Concept is. And what a lot of **** there is around posing as extra strong hook length material. Incognito is truly superb stuff.

I have found that super duper low diam. hook length material is very difficult to use and rarely breaks at the stated b.s. Perhaps its ok bungee-ing under a pole with a bit of elastic - but for rod and line, it is practically useless unless you use the actual dia. as a bench mark for strength.

Shimano Technium (bolo) seems to be very strong and has a lower than average dia. though. Its behaving itself well at the moment anyway....

I much prefer a lighter weight rod than most for carp fishing, but yesterday I sort of took it too far.

I was fishing for roach with an Avon Quiver rod with a 2oz tip in ( yes, 'that' rod by John Wilson) and a caged feeder, when I spotted carp taking bread off the top.....

Off with the feeder on with a fluoro hooklength and a size ten and some bread. A quick dunk and...well it was hours before they came around again, but I landed one at around 20 pounds.

The poor old rod was bent double, a full 180 degree curve. The side strain was so strong that the rod sections revolved inside the spigot joints.


I'd better not be rude about that rod again after that, had I? But it does show how some people are overdoing it with a 3lb test rod.


Before you think me reckless to go after such a fish with such tackle, in my defence I have to say it was my first time on the water, there was no-one else to ask and the first fish I saw were about 10 pounds.


My dog actually hid from the fish when I unhooked it...he'd never seen one so big...I can't stop laughing thinking about the look on his face

the indifferent crucian said:

My dog actually hid from the fish when I unhooked it...he'd never seen one so big...I can't stop laughing thinking about the look on his face

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Poor wow wow!

There's no reason at all for choosing a rod with a test curve of more than 2.5lb for playing carp - even huge ones - in the UK. Anything over this is a casting rod. You can't throw a big PVA bag with a 2oz lead in it far unless the rod is powerful enough to do it, but remember that such a rod is always a compromise tool, and will to a greater or lesser extent impede the playing of a big fish.

Casting and fish playing are two totally incompatible actions, so every rod is a compromise. All rods act as a lever of sorts, enabling the line to be held out further from the angler and (through simple mechanical principles) multiplying the effect of hand/arm movement. This leverage helps the angler propel the bait/lead, but works against him when playing a fish. Therefore, unless your particular situation demands a rod capable of throwing a heavy object a long way, stick to the more flexible rods.

That's not to say you must go to extremes - I'm sure Indifferent Crucian would agree that it would be foolhardy to deliberately set out to catch big carp with something as light as a traditional 1.25lb Avon rod - but in reasonably open water such rods are quite capable of landing anything you hook. I have never seen or handled the FM Concept rod, but it sounds perfect for close-range carping in all but the snaggiest spots - and with margin fishing rod power is less significant than line thickness, as near-bank tussles with snag-dwelling carp tend to be a tug of war with the rod held at a low angle and most of the strain being carried on the line. A softer rod can be a help here, as the bend moves down the rod towards the anglers hand and thus imparts less leverage on the arm; it also cushions the hookhold.

Once you start fishing at ranges over forty yards or so, you do need to up the power to 2lb or so, simply to enable more of the length of the rod to be utilised in controlling the fish. Over eighty yards that needs to go up even more, but I have never found it necessary to exceed 2.5lb, even when using small PVA bags. Indeed, the best casting rods I've ever used were Simpson's Jim Gibbinson Eclipses and Daiwa Kevin Nash Amorphous Dictators - both 2.25lb twelve footers.

Sadly, these days it's hard to find carp rods under 2.5lb as the fashion is for ever more powerful tools. Those that are available are generally designated floater rods. If you read between the lines a bit here you can see the absurdity of a marketplace that says you need a 2.25lb rod to fish a floater, yet for a bottom bait you need to crank up to 3.25lb! The carp are the same, so where's the difference? There is none, unless you insist on using huge leads or big PVA bags for everything, or are one of the 0.01% of carp anglers who genuinely need to cast 130 yards plus to reach the fish.

Fred Blake said:

Sadly, these days it's hard to find carp rods under 2.5lb as the fashion is for ever more powerful tools. Those that are available are generally designated floater rods. If you read between the lines a bit here you can see the absurdity of a marketplace that says you need a 2.25lb rod to fish a floater, yet for a bottom bait you need to crank up to 3.25lb! The carp are the same, so where's the difference? There is none, unless you insist on using huge leads or big PVA bags for everything, or are one of the 0.01% of carp anglers who genuinely need to cast 130 yards plus to reach the fish.

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Fashions are perculiar indeed. Some of the reels I possess are designated "feeder reels". I would like to know who by? The biggest laugh of all with modern tackle is "match rods" so named because they are not used for match fishing any more!

I have 4 match rods and they have not been used in a match yet!

But they have helped me catch loads of fish.

Then there was the youngster who walked into a tackle shop in Leamington many years ago to buy a chair. He was shown a "Chub Chair".

"But I don't want to catch chub" he said, "I want to catch carp!"

the topic of carp rod sizes is problem that will keep on going round and round for ever.
i was taught at a young age to use tackle suitable for the task in hand and over the last 30 odd years i have fished for all types of fish and in most cases ive had anglers try to tell me i am using the wrong tackle, yet i have SPORT with my fish, i hardly ever just hook a fish and reel it to the net like i see so many anglers doing nowadays.
local to me is a small day ticket carp/match lake, stocked with carp around the 6-10 lbs mark though the odd 20 does rear its head once in a while. no doubt you all have a local lake like this one near by and i will stake money on it that a large portion of the carp will have disfigured lips and mouths. the reason for these problems with the fish is simple, its down to brute force and ignorance led by a greedy tackle industry. people hear the word carp and all sense leaves them so they go out and get a 3lbs rob 15lbs line and 3oz leads then fish 20 yrds away. after striking these so called anglers reel the poor fish into the net and then struggle to unhook said fish as it bounces all over the bank trying its best to get back to the lake, and those are the lucky carp. the unlucky ones have to contend with having the hook ripped clean out of its mouth due to the force excerted by the rod and line at short distance.
last week i was in the local tackle shop that just so happens to own this local match water. the owner was selling a poor bloke a new carp set up, he fished as a boy and still had some tackle but after a long break his mate took him to the lake and he had fun but got snapped up a couple of times. he was recomended a 3lbs test rod and 15lbs line on a big pit reel. the lake is 40yrds wide and 150 yrds long so why the rod and reel set up?
i tried to inform him that he would have much more fun buying a twin tip ledger/quiver rod with a test curve of around 1.5lbs on the ledger rod, then go for a nice medium sized reel and 6lbs line. he can land any carp in the lake on that set up, i know as ive had carp to 26lbs on similar tackle and not struggled to much to land them.
the tackle shop owner tried to tell me how wrong i was. the end of it was me pointing out he didnt have a clue and obviously didnt care about the health of his own fishery and i walked out never to return.
i suppose i am lucky in that i spent my 20's single and was able to throw lots of money at fishing so i have rods ranging from light quiver all the way to 3.5lbs test curve. my main line is between 4 and 12lbs max. though in france i use 35lbs braid just to cope with snags in the river. i match my tackle to the size of the water, the distance i want to cast and the average size of fish i am likely to catch. the vast majority of fish i land put up a good fight and from the moment i set the hook to me sliding the net under the fish i have a huge grin on my face and a good scrap with the fish. when i catch a small fish on heavy tackle its boring and no fun.
so to the answer the question if you want to have fun and sport playing the fish then fish as light as possible.

good points. In defence of the ultra cult carp angler - probably owns 4 rods max. ! spod and matching st of 3lb test that does every thing asked of them.

I probably have more rods than I want to admit too as above:wh

chav professor said:

good points. In defence of the ultra cult carp angler - probably owns 4 rods max. ! spod and matching st of 3lb test that does every thing asked of them.

I probably have more rods than I want to admit too as above:wh

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And in the interests of commonsense, if your average ultra-cult carper retained a set of rods for more than one season, and spent the money he would otherwise have forked out on a new shiny set of super-duper ones guaranteed to catch more carp on a set of lighter/heavier models, he would be no worse off and far better equipped.

agamemnon said:

local to me is a small day ticket carp/match lake, stocked with carp around the 6-10 lbs mark though the odd 20 does rear its head once in a while. no doubt you all have a local lake like this one near by and i will stake money on it that a large portion of the carp will have disfigured lips and mouths. the reason for these problems with the fish is simple, its down to brute force and ignorance led by a greedy tackle industry. people hear the word carp and all sense leaves them so they go out and get a 3lbs rob 15lbs line and 3oz leads then fish 20 yrds away. after striking these so called anglers reel the poor fish into the net and then struggle to unhook said fish as it bounces all over the bank trying its best to get back to the lake, and those are the lucky carp. the unlucky ones have to contend with having the hook ripped clean out of its mouth due to the force excerted by the rod and line at short distance.

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I'm not at all convinced by this theory but will concede that it does happen. However, the reason for my scepticism is that I've seen many carp disfigured in such a way on commercial waters where such tactics are simply not allowed. I'm afraid that it's probably down to bad or inexperienced anglers rather than particular methods.

The truth probably lies somewhere in between. Not all carp damage is due solely to over-heavy tackle, any more than it is invariably due to frequent repeat captures, or simply to bad handling - it's a combination of factors including (but not restricted to) any of the above.

Barbless hooks have often been cited as the cause of mouth damage, due to their propensity to move above during the fight. I remain to be convinced - after all, the reason bent-hook rigs were banned was supposedly due to damage caused by the hooks staying in too well! You can't have it both ways. To my mind the big advantage of barbless hooks is that a carp can more readily get rid of one if the line breaks. All this talk of lead safety clips, drop-off leads etc only solves part of the problem; lead or no, a fish lost on a barbed hook is most likely condemned to be trailing line and probably a leader of some sort until it gets caught again - unless it gets tangled up in snags first, which is quite possible.

I found this interesting BFW Article - rod/test curves

Blimey, I posted a link before Steph

This is truly an excellent article by Gary Staddon. If I can criticize anything, it is is that Gary should have explained in a little more detail how to set up the rod to decide on it's test curve.

Its important to attach the reel and to thread the line through the rings in the normal way. The pull on the line bending the rod should be at 90 degrees to the rod handle.

The test curve loading is when the tip of the rod forms a tangent to the direction of the pull on the line. On fast taper rods, especially those with quiver tips, this can be seen quite easily. On slow taper rods, it does appear that a perfect tangent is never achieved. This is one of the many reasons why test curve values are flawed.

I do get a bit fed up of young carp anglers who have never studied engineering, talking knowingly about carp tackle technology and when you ask them to describe a test curve in detail, they haven't got a clue.

---------- Post added at 10:18 ---------- Previous post was at 09:10 ----------

A little on the origin of test curves.

The first reference to test curves I ever remember was by Richard Walker in his book: "Still Water Angling." **** drew a bent rod showing the pull required to achieve this.

Test curves were first used by the International Game Fishing Association to determine the strength of big game rods which are used on big game fish such as marlin. The USA calculation for a "50 pound line class rod" was 50/2.5 = Test Curve = 20 lbs. The rod being suitable for a 50lb test line. The system used in the UK was a dividing factor of 5.

Therefore 50/5 = 10

The test curve being 10 lbs.

This is what Walker based the design calculations of his Mk IV carp rod on, and at the time, with the materials available to him it was a pretty good system.

For example 5 x 1.5lbs TC = 7.5 lbs test line which was the ideal strength. But the rod handles lines down to 5 lbs and up as far as 12 lbs. My Fishing Magic Concept has handled such a range of lines perfectly.

But today we have new materials that are different in many ways to split cane. It's now time for a better way of rating the power and action of fishing rods. Fly rods are now rated on the AFTM range of line weights. I think modern coarse/lure/spin fishing rods should be rated on casting weight; which in the USA many lure and spin fishing rods are.

Thanks for the info. I myself like the softer action of a through action rod, and i agree it does help cushion the hookhold especially at the bank. i used to have a eagle claw downrigger rod. it was 8.5 ft rated from 8 to20 lb line with a through action and soft tip. i always used 10lb mono and caught alot of fish with it. i will most likely buy something similar to this for most of my carp fishing. my main spot has very few snags andi dont really have to cast, just pitch it out a few feet in the margins. the stream is only 30yds wide in all but one spot where it is perhaps 60yds wide anyway. it is below a dam and they do let alot of water out after big rains. it was during one of these times that i hooked a carp that i'm sure was 40lb. i hooked him in the margins where the current wasn't to heavy, but as soon as he realized he was hooked he shot out into the main current went broadside to it and just let the current take him downstream. it was like trying to hold a car rolling down hill. i tightened up the drag as much as i could a feathered the spool with my hand, had to run down the bank for a 100yds trying to stop him. then he came to a bridge pillar he was going to go on the far side of it so i just held the spool tight and held on, the hook pulled and he was gone. not sure if any other rod would have done better. but i am looking at some other spots at some lakes close by these spots could require some distance on the cast. these spots have snags and big fish, so would a 2.5 rod with a medium action be a good choice. would use these rods for catfish also

---------- Post added at 17:58 ---------- Previous post was at 17:11 ----------

i shouldve added this in my last post. first thing is i dont want to injure or disfigure any carp i may catch and i like the sport of actually fighting a fish not just hooking one and dragging it in i see alot of this in our local paylakes with catfish. guys using surf tackle with 40 to60lb line in a lake you could throw a rock across with no snags. i guess i should say that i want a long rod but with a soft action and light tip. am open to suggestions on makes and models. the longer rod would take care of my distance issues even with a lighter action and lighter line say 10lb mono. i said 100 yds in my first post but this would be the extreme . most casts would be closer to 50yds or so. i could bait them away fom the worst snags. so that i guess isnt such a problem really. again thanks for all the help and info.

[FONT=&quot]Here’s part of an interesting article that I read some months ago:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Let's take a hypothetical situation; but answer in your own mind. What rod would be the most powerful between a 13’ match rod and an 11’ 1.25lb Avon rod?[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

How many of you went for the Avon? Chances are you'll be wrong. If you don't believe me, and you have access to both, I'll offer you a challenge. Thread up both rods and attach a spring balance to the end of the line on each in turn. Bend into both with as much gusto as you dare. You are not looking to determine a test-curve, as that is not 'real-world'. No, real-world is where you have a decent fish heading for a snag and you bend into it to stop it in it's tracks and that will require you put a much greater bend into the rod, down to the handle if you can/dare.

See, with an Avon, the action is 'all-through'. So, by the time the rod bent anywhere near to its full load it is bent down to the handle. This will give you a good 90 degree bend, which might be reflective of it's test-curve, i.e. 1.25lb of force. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]So how would the match rod have faired?[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

There is a good chance that the match rod will have a test-curve somewhere around 8 ounces. So, after a decent strike the rod would have achieved its' test-curve. BUT, as match rods tend to be more tip-actioned to progressive the bend at the point of test curve will still be within the top third of the rod. There is still two thirds of the rod with which we can apply a loading to. This is all IN ADDITION to any test curve. It could be that, by the time we have applied considerable (but safe) force to either the point where the blank 'locks-up' or we reach the handle, there may be 2lb or more of pressure exerted on our spring balance.

Are you surprised that the match rod came out on top? For many years my favourite barbel rod was an old 12' match rod. The top half soon bowled over but the real strength lay in the amount of force that could be exerted between the mid-point and the handle.

So you can start to see that action has perhaps a bigger part to play than test curve alone. The two do need to be considered hand in hand. But that is not to say that two progressive actioned 1.75lb rods will be as powerful as each other. Physical construction and tapers will determine that. Beyond action there are other factors which play a part, such as blank diameter, wall thickness and material strengths. This is why there are always new rods available on the market each year. There are just so many permutations to arrive at the end result - a fishing rod.[/FONT]

I used to use 2.75tc rods for all my carp fishing and I use them when using pva solid bags, but now my main carp armoury are a pair of 2lb North Western kevlar ultralites which I picked up at a car boot sale for 20 quid the pair.

I use them 90% of the time and they give my such versatility in my approach and real enjoyment in playing carp of all sizes.
I use to think that you needed heavy carp gear but not anymore.