Irish Carp

Is this the thin end of the wedge now for fishing in Ireland?

A country renowned for it's top quality bream, tench and pike fishing, drawing anglers from far and wide to holiday over there for a week's fishing, usually bagging up with quality bream.

Is all that going to end eventually, if and when the carp take over as they have in Britain and elsewhere?

One can only pray that the Irish show more common sense than we have over the issue and I would ask anyone involved in this scheme to start to listen to the wispers in the wind that people are finally starting to get fed up with an unending diet of carp over here.
Quite honestly I do not think that carp will have quite the same impact over there as visiting anglers prefer something different to that which we can get at home.
However Graham I do share your expressed concerns.

The water in question has been a major source of frustration to myself and many other local anglers over the stocking of carp. The water holds a large head of small pike in the 6-12 lb range and I and a few friends ocassionally fished it for a confidence booster when time was short. The carp fishery scheme did not mention this at any stage (publically at least) until the licience to stock carp was obtained. I attempted to get answers from many goverment departments, but all I could get in response was that no licience at that time to net and remove pike had been granted. A well respected fishery officer told myself and a collegue that unfortunately if the pike are to be removed it will be done by whatever means is required, although he did assure me that he would not overlook any illegal activity. I and approximatley 20 fellow anglers sent an open letter to a local Angling publication, which was not published, but in the same issue the pike "problem" was addressed openly to the best of my knowledge for the first time, stating that "The water held a few pike which would be removed with the co operation of pike conservation groups". The place is, or was at least was full of pike (My money says they'll enjoy their new continental breakfast menu) and I cannot believe that none of the surveys detailed this, as it's a well known local fact. I'm afraid that I or many of my fellow pikers will never be able to bring ourselves to fish this water again, as you may or may not know, the laws regarding the import of live fish into Northern Ireland are among the strictest in the world, but it seems that anything goes when a local council gives its backing. I will gladly e-mail a copy of the unpublished letter to anyone that may be interested, although not wishing to infringe copyright you will have to source the otherwise excellent local publication yourself.

Yes Graham I am afraid that the carp plague looks like taking a foot hold in the emerald Isle. Fools that they are. Although Ireland could do with a influx of Chub. What do You think?

Tight lines, Martin Batey.

First thoughts are that it would be nice to see chub in Irish rivers, but I suppose that's just as selfish as the carp lads wanting to see carp in the stillwaters.

The sensible thing is to leave well alone. Ireland has got some brilliant pike, bream and tench fishing so why risk spoiling it with the introduction of any species?

I agree with Graham, whats wrong with Irish fisheries as they are? I thought they we're supposed to be the best in U.K. anyway, why change them?!

I thought that the current state of Irish fish populations was a direct result of both legal and illegal stockings of non-native fish anyway.
It appears to be well past it's peak in terms of achievable bags of fish, but the introduction of carp would probably split up and thin out the shoals of fish that do remain.

I do strongly object when blinkered people refer to carp as a plague though.

Carp usually grow to be big, strong, hard-fighting sporting fish that give pleasure to many anglers, including me.

Unfortunately, that strength and size, and the food they need to maintain it, makes them a much more dominant species than tench, and particularly roach, rudd and bream, with the consequence that carp tend to take over a fishery to the detriment of the other species.

And that's what most anglers, who don't have a particular penchant for carp, object to.

I agree Graham, I also enjoy catching all species, and sometimes go out of my way to catch carp. However, some of the places that used to hold good shoals of roach (particularly farm pools) now have just carp and sticklebacks left in them. I remember racing out of school in the summer to catch lovely big roach ......those pools now areowned by carp syndicates, are chocolate brown and stuffed full of big carp.....

Further update. The carp purchased for stocking were on the small side for the 'gate' which was placed in the lake where a stream enters the river Bann so the stocking could not go ahead. However the fish were held in tanks at the lakeside and over the heavy rains of a few weeks back 200 small carp were washed into the Upper Bann. Yes the same river Bann that has a native trout population, a salmon and a dollaghan run. Other 'missing' fish have turned up in the fishery building contractors fishtanks, garden ponds etc. and probably, but I hope not, into other local lakes. I have not been able to get news of any new plans but I say stop it now, this is a warning of a catasthrophe.

Carp must be kept from polluting the waters of Ireland at all costs. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - Carp are vermin!! The only good carp is a dead carp!!!

I don't know who you are, or who you think you are, but your anti-carp spoutings make you sound like a complete idiot.

You are obviously not an angler, or else you wouldn't wish another fish dead.

I don't like pike, but I don't say that all pike caught should be nailed to trees.

The carp, according to all the surveys conducted, has been Britains most sought after fish since about 1985, replacing the roach at the top of the list.
You are alienating a lot of people with your repugnent outpourings, but I would guess you don't really care about that.
But you forget that without the income from all the carp anglers into the tackle trade, you probably wouldn't have a local tackle shop to go into, to buy your crowquills and half a pint of gentles.

Good answer Carpy.........while I admit to getting a bit miffed at seeing carp everywhere, during the dry spell last season I went out of my way to save some large fish from a small pool set to dry out, and contacting the EA to do their bit. Comments like Rons,are obviously not said 'tongue in cheek' or in 'BARNEY RIBBLE' style to provoke some debate, they are just beyond what I imagine the average angler/conservationist would even dream of saying, and belong in the bin.

OK, point taken. But I have seen the tremendous damage these fish can do. For example: almost total destruction of the superb species - Barbus seirra in the Eerste Rivier near Cape Town, prime habitat of Barbus kimberleyensis on the Orange Vaal system destroyed. Something like 8 reserviors in the Gauteng area where the water is now so murkey that Barbus holibi has not been seen in 10 years. The whole of the Limpopo system so polluted with carp that about 6 species of Labeo have become extinct. There is even evidence that carp have got into the Zambesi River. If they have then the fantastic variety of species from the tigerfish to the chessa are numbered.
Away from Africa, I could go on about what carp have done to the spawning beds of the Smallmouth Bass in the States. About how that famous Australian species - The Murray Cod has almost dissappeared, due to carp over-population.
Do I need to go on.

I realise that English anglers regard carp with almost some form of reverence. My hatred of carp is based on hard experience of the damage to whole eco systems that these "overgrown goldfish" can do. Even **** Walker in his Angling Times Column ca 1978, warned of the problems that could take place by an over infestation of this fish, especially in our rivers.

Carp in Ireland: no, never. The rudd are scarce enough there now, if carp are introduced, Irish rudd may become extinct!

Finally, we get some sensible words from the man.
I agree that they will probably do a fair bit of ecological harm if stocked into the waterways of Ireland, as I said in my previous post.
I don't see a problem in a landlocked lake providing that they stay there.

Glad to see you've got off your emotive soap box and have put forward a very well reasoned argument.

I'm not a devoted carp fisherman by any stretch of the imagination, and, with the waters I fish being mainly canals, I see few carp. But when I do see them, I see them respectfully. Maybe I do have a somewhat naive viewpoint, but carp are, like any other fish, a superb sporting species. Although I am not saying that carp should take over the waterways, I do feel that they should have their place.

Sorry for my earier outburst chaps, but when I see people who want to put carp in a carp free area, I go ballistic.