Big Baits or Small Baits......

GrahamM

GrahamM

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Sean raises another very interesting question: Are big baits or small baits best for barbel?

Sean swears by small baits (which are my own preference) but how many articles and news reports have we read when big barbel (and plenty of small ones) have been caught on ridiculously large baits like half a tin of luncheon meat and two 18mm boilies?

Is it again another case of you catch on whatever you've got confidence in and the barbel, in reality, couldn't give a monkey's?

Or is it a case of offering a bait to suit the swim and the conditions at the time?
 
N

Nigel Connor(ACA ,SAA)

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Graham,

It has to be horses for courses.

I love fishing casters and maggots for barbel as the preoccupation factor can really get the fish going without wariness creeping in.

That approach on some rivers is however very difficult especially in summer when nuisance fish are abundant.

My best Swale fish came on 3 casters and I have done well on a maggot feeder.

When I fished it however it was very much a specimen river with few if any nuisance fish to prevent a small bait approach.I don't know if that's the case now but Sean will no doubt confirm.
 
Graham Whatmore

Graham Whatmore

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Much the same as Nigel really, I tend to start with 14mm halibut pellets on the Severn and Wye but if I'm getting no bites I will switch to 8mm ones. Of course it doesn't always work but it works often enough to make it a definite tactic.

As I have said on here a few times the Teme is a particular river where small baits will catch more fish mainly I think because it is a relatively shallow river and mostly quite clear. Conversely, my biggest barbel on the Teme have come to 14mm pellets so there is no rule except that it sometimes pays not to have rules.
 
S

Sean Meeghan

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Yes Nigel the Swale is still largely a big fish river, although the smaller fish do seem to be starting a come-back. You occasionally get 'bitted out' in the evenings if you're fishing caster.

I'm not saying that big baits don't work, in fact anything that a fish hasn't seen before, but is recognisable as food will work. I think it comes down to the spook factor inthat fish soon cotton on to large baits and treat them with caution. Smaller baits are closer in size to their normal food items and they have trouble working this out.

I do think that because of their distinctive shape pellets blow quicker than most baits even in the smaller sizes.
 
R

Robert Woods 1

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I've caught on a low Severn using a bit of pepperami or single swwetcorn on small hook and 10lb florocarbon.
 
Graham Whatmore

Graham Whatmore

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Sean, when you think about it all baits have a distinctive shape wouldn't you say. If every angler roughed up the shape of the pellet in the same way that luncheon meat is better ripped off rather than cubed then surely the fish would become shy of roughed up pellets or meat.

I think its more to do with how long the fish gets to look at the bait that makes it wary, the less competition the more time it has and lets face it most baits are unnatural to fish. Moving baits have the advantage over still baits because a fish reacts instinctively to a passing meal whereas static baits are unnatural merely because they are still. Get them feeding and competing though and all that wariness and instinct goes out of the window.

Exactly why small sometimes works rather than large I don't know but if everyone fished small pellets then large ones would then become different if you see what I mean.
 
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alex laurie

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I reckon small baits are best overall. If using meat, my standard approach is a cage feeder with 1/4" cubes and the same on the hook. I think the fish get confident eating lots of smaller particles, rather than a couple of big ones.
Likewise with corn. I'll usually use one or two grains on the hook.
Same with pellet. I've been using 8 or 10mm on the hook with 3 or 6mm as feed. Works for me.
 
G

Geoff Cowen

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With all that has been said and written about bait size in the last year I decided that this season I would make a point of fishing a small ellipse pellet or boilie on one rod and a 20mm Halibut pellet on the other. The result has been that 75% of my fish have come to the 20mm Halibut pellet. I am not saying that I would only fish large baits but it does make you think.
 
GrahamM

GrahamM

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That's exactly the point I've been making Geoff. So much of what we think we know in fishing is more about what we assume.

Make a good catch on small baits and you fish small baits more than big baits on following visits. So guess which baits do best?

I'm not saying that small baits for barbel are not usually best, I'm saying that I'll bet there are many times when a bigger bait would have caught more.

And I'll bet there are many more times when the size of the bait wouldn't have made any difference whatsoever.
 
T

Trent water rat {mark}

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Ive found the opposite to geoff this year, can only seem to attract bites fishing with smaller baits 2x6mm pellets as opposed to the boile or larger size pellet. But then i do most of my fishing early morning/day time do light levels make a difference?
 
G

Geoff Cowen

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Spot on Graham. I have always been of a mind that changing bait is a good policy throughout a session. We all have favourite baits, bait we have had success with but making a change may be the difference between a good days fishing or blanking.
I always like to have a good choice to pick from and probable take to many. I have been fishing on difficult day and have managed to picked up a fish, the most memorable was a day last season, lots of water coming through and not a sight of a fish with an hour to go before I was due to leave for home I opened a tin of meat ball. Second run through I had a Barbel of 6lb which turned disaster into success disaster.
I have had so much success with large Halibut pellet that I could easily be tempted to leave all other baits a home but why limit your choices. None of us go as often as we would like so you should give your self the best chance of a fish.
By the the way Mark I do most of my fishing during the day.
 
S

Sean Meeghan

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Hmm... difficult isn't it. I think that there are so many variables that its difficult to make hard and fast rules. My gut feel is still that small is best in the long run. Geoff and I fish the same river, but different stretches so are our results comparable. I'd like to hear from someone who fishes the Barbel Society stretch of the Swale - big baits or small guys?
 
J

Jon Bedford

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I've mainly fished the lower stretch at cundal, a bit less pressured than the upper.
I've had my most productive days on the Maggots and Casters.
But when its been harder (i find that you tend to know very quick, if you havent stopped the rattles from smaller fish and haven't had a decent bite in half an hour to an hour, it gunna be slow) a pellet between 8 and 14mm has produced a fish or two.
Never used a bigger bait unless its a foot plus up and then i've found a decent chunk of meat or two or three big lob tails on a big hook has gained me fish, if its really up i turn round and go and fish the Wharfe!!

PS caught loads in me Leeds shirt, who needs realtree!
 
G

gilesy

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sean i fish the bradford number one length at thornton bridge.inconclusive ! last year my biggest was eleven pound on double caster,i also won a match with five barbel for thirty pound on caster.but when i have just gone up with pellets and boilie i have caught.this last few weeks ive been trying what mick wood got published in coarse fisherman,using small pellets glued together and mixed pellets in the cage. in three sessions ive blanked once and caught a couple of eights.
 
J

john ledger

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Graham
Last week on the Upper Trent i tried big pellets small pellets small boilies big boilies,nearly tried rabbit droppings and yes i blanked.
Does that make me a bad angler .Yes it does.
Sean
Where where you when i needed you?
 
J

john ledger

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And what happened to sausage meat,i used to snortle em out in the sixties on the Swale Nidd Whare and Ure on links of sausage
 
S

Sean Meeghan

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Gilesy I think the problem with Mick's method is that on stretches that are feeder fished a lot Barbel can be a bit nervous of feeders. Mick is fishing a stretch of the Wharfe that is a lot more prolific than Thornton Bridge and also much more lightly fished. OK his method works well on other rivers, but Thornton Bridge is a bit like Asenby in that it gets a fair bit of pressure. I'd give a lumpy paste wrapped round your pellet a go.
 
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