Sweetcorn and Ron Clay...was he responsible?

In reading the 1984 book 'Redmire Pool' by Kevin Clifford & Len Arbery some effort is made to establish when sweetcorn was first used at Redmire and it would seem June 1972 is, moreorless, the agreed date.

However it goes on to say it is probably true that several other anglers were independently developing the use of sweetcorn at the same time.Apparently the first time it was mentioned in print was in the Angling Telegraph (January 1972). Ron Clay, an exiled Englishman living in South africa wrote an article about the methods use to catch carp in SA.He wrote "Most of the bigger carp are taken on grains of sweetcorn, about three on a no 4 hook"

.....so is this the first time it was used/mentioned or does someone else have other ideas...?

In the early 70's I also lived in SA and fished for carp (occasionally) on the mighty Vaal Dam where a family member had a huge sweetcorn farm.His children introduced me to a paste made from sweetcorn (mealiepap?) with some form of curry powder added(?) and this was thought to be 'lekker' for the carp.I never caught anything big but it did catch!

Strangely, they never used the kernels on the hook,or at least not when I was around and it never occured to me at that time.Some years later I returned to the UK when the yellow peril rage was in full swing!!

Hartbeespoort Dam if memory serves me, a few of our lads from the Manchester Carp Group had moved over there, Ron picked up the method of using maize from the locals who use Sagem Zeest or something, a giant swim feeder in a large sack (Ron?), the mealie pip trap was the one they used, hence Rons introduction to the bolt rig in the early 70s, although it didnt take off in the UK until the late seventies, I`m sure my mate will be along shortly and put be right, I know at the time Ron was writing for Tight Lines and a local club magazine in Joberg, `The Rand Piscatorials in the southern transvaal, which I use to get sent over at the time from other friends out there

Tee-Cee said:

In reading the 1984 book 'Redmire Pool' by Kevin Clifford & Len Arbery some effort is made to establish when sweetcorn was first used at Redmire and it would seem June 1972 is, moreorless, the agreed date.

However it goes on to say it is probably true that several other anglers were independently developing the use of sweetcorn at the same time.Apparently the first time it was mentioned in print was in the Angling Telegraph (January 1972). Ron Clay, an exiled Englishman living in South africa wrote an article about the methods use to catch carp in SA.He wrote "Most of the bigger carp are taken on grains of sweetcorn, about three on a no 4 hook"

.....so is this the first time it was used/mentioned or does someone else have other ideas...?

In the early 70's I also lived in SA and fished for carp (occasionally) on the mighty Vaal Dam where a family member had a huge sweetcorn farm.His children introduced me to a paste made from sweetcorn (mealiepap?) with some form of curry powder added(?) and this was thought to be 'lekker' for the carp.I never caught anything big but it did catch!

Strangely, they never used the kernels on the hook,or at least not when I was around and it never occured to me at that time.Some years later I returned to the UK when the yellow peril rage was in full swing!!

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I think I've said this before (a few times) but I'll say it again. The answer is, no he wasn't. Leslie P Thompson, an American angler, wrote of using sweetcorn in the 1940s, and in fact was published (I think in the 'Fishing Gazette', though it may have been 'Anglers News') in the UK in 1946. There is a reference to this in Kevin Clifford's original 'History of Carp Fishing', as well as Nick Lyons' 'Fishermans Bounty (1970) and doubtless other works.

Notwithstanding the above, Rod Hutchinson mentioned using sweetcorn himself around 1969/1970, though it didn't appear until his first book was published in 1981. The story goes he was playing around with hemp at the time, but struggling to resolve the difficulty of presenting it on a strong enough hook. He was working in a warehouse at the time, and one night whilst operating a forklift he inadvertantly knocked over a row of pallets which held sweetcorn, and had a right job cleaning it all up. The idea then came to him that corn might be the very bait he was seeking.

Corn and maize products have been used long before that of course in coarse angling, Marshall Hardy 1934, JW Martin 1906 and I expect before that

Did Mr Clay live in Zuid Afrika ? Who'd a thought it...

Whole maize grains, either boiled to make them soft or harvested early when they are green and soft - called sweetcorn - were common baits used in South Africa ever since the first Europeans settled there. And here I'm going back as far as the early 18th century. There were no carp to catch then, these fish being first introduced in the mid 19th century. However there were yellowfish, mudfish and varieties of the Chichlid family that could be caught on sweetcorn.

I certainly was not responsible for introducing sweetcorn to carp anglers as obviously it was being used by anglers all over the world, a couple of hundred years ago. What was interesting is the fact that the generation of young carp anglers spawned by the English Carp Catchers Club with **** Walker at the helm, hardly ever mentioned, let alone used sweetcorn. Maurice Ingham I think did briefly gloss over it in the CCCs rotary letter but that's all that came of it.

It wasn't so much the use of sweetcorn that I had any influence on, but rather the early development of the bolt rig, that is terminal tackle that would cause a carp to hook itself. When I wrote about this concept, I was criticised by many luminaries at the time, including Sir Richard. In a trip to the UK in 1978, I met up with my friend of many years and the man who formed the British Carp study Group - Eric Hodson. Eric was adamant that it was my article that started the bolt rig idea rolling, mainly by North Western carp anglers living in the vicinity of Manchester.

The Monk has a story to tell here, and maybe one day he will tell it.

---------- Post added at 21:51 ---------- Previous post was at 21:26 ----------

Tee-Cee said:

Strangely, they never used the kernels on the hook,or at least not when I was around and it never occured to me at that time.Some years later I returned to the UK when the yellow peril rage was in full swing!!

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The use of maize kernels on the hook was more popular amongst carp anglers who fished at the Hartebeespoort and Benoni Dams. It had a tendency to be more selective for big carp. Certainly the paste called "meiliepap" produced by boiling white maizemeal was far more popular on Vaal Dam and the Vaal River.

However one of my fishing companions was Trevor Babich, who was at the time chairman of the Rand Piscatorial Association. To avoid the myriads of small carp in Vaal Dam, Trevor used large mature hard grains of maize that had been drilled through the middle. These grains, often more than one, were attached to the hook by a short length of fine cotton!

Eat your hearts out Mr. Middleton et al, you were not the first to use a hair rig.

I like the story of chris yates adding it to his scrambled eggs at redmire, stumbbling upon the idea by chance. Or was it more due to him fishing along Hutchinson?

Much more likely that he was fishing with Hutchie Danny.

In my opinion, Rod, along with Jim Gibbinson were the most innovative of the English carp anglers.

My problem with sweetcorn these days is that I tend to scoff the stuff like there's no tomorrow. I normally have at least 6 cans of Green Giant Niblets on my shelf both for bait and myself. It doesn't half keep you regular.

Thanks to everyone for the response-its always interesting to have a clearer picture AND more importantly (I hope!) for young anglers to know when baits/rigs etc came into being....

Fred Blake: My apologies if you had to repeat your contribution (again). I, for one, wasn't aware of (most) of that written above so I have learnt something and thats what FM is about-an exchange of information including the history of the sport............................If only one young angler reads this thread and 'takes it on board' it means the general history of sweetcorn (in terms of fishing) is 'out there' and IMHO that is important.No less the history of the bolt rig et al...

Perhaps we tend to forget that much of the background covering the history of our sport,although generally well documented, is contained in books now out of print and therefore not necessarily available to anyone new to the sport who might also have an enquiring mind.......................

One thing I can tell you about angling; it's very dangerous for anyone to claim he/she has invented anything because if you investigate the matter and go back in history, you will find it has been done before.

All I ever did was to look at what was happening and report it. I, and maybe a few others may have been responsible for a few tweaks to what we discovered, but that's innovation, not invention.

Ron The Hat Clay said:

it's very dangerous for anyone to claim he/she has invented anything

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Well, I think, I'm fairly sure, that without a shadow of doubt that I might just possibly have developed the first ever - extending bankstick.

There you go, I've said it now.

It was made out of - an old bra stand I got from work. I threw threw the top away, the bit with the boobies on (eventually ), and I sawed the extending stand up. Squashed one end and because it was brass, brazed it to seal it after making a point. On the top extending bit I bought a landing net screwy thing in brass from the local shop and filled the gap between it and the stand's tube with solder to hold it. It was the envy of many on the bank, but because the tube was chrome-plated brass it weighed a ton. That was 1966 and perhaps I should have registered the design and made a fortune in royalties on them since.

Any offers on a previous model? Because I couldn't find one in any of the local shops I enquired at.

Jeff Woodhouse said:

Well, I think, I'm fairly sure, that without a shadow of doubt that I might just possibly have developed the first ever - extending bankstick.

There you go, I've said it now.

It was made out of - an old bra stand I got from work. I threw threw the top away, the bit with the boobies on (eventually ), and I sawed the extending stand up. Squashed one end and because it was brass, brazed it to seal it after making a point. On the top extending bit I bought a landing net screwy thing in brass from the local shop and filled the gap between it and the stand's tube with solder to hold it. It was the envy of many on the bank, but because the tube was chrome-plated brass it weighed a ton. That was 1966 and perhaps I should have registered the design and made a fortune in royalties on them since.

Any offers on a previous model? Because I couldn't find one in any of the local shops I enquired at.

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BB describes a rod rest in Fishermans Bedside Book (1946) made from a bicycle rod brake with a cycle clip welded to the end. My interpretation of this (rightly or wrongly) is that the extending bit of the brake mechanism formed the upright, with the cycle clip acting as the rod holding part. That would seem to make it an extending rod rest, if he'd used both inner and outer of the mechanism.

Whether you regard that as an extending bankstick is up to you! Perhaps you're claim is more valid insofar as it featured the standard BSF 20 female thread at the end.

Fred Blake said:

Perhaps you're claim is more valid insofar as it featured the standard BSF 20 female thread at the end.

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Thought I might get caught out, but yes it did have the standard thread and would take any of the modern rod rests. So was it the first?

I had previously bought one that had a swinging V contraption to it, in that you closed the V end together and tightened a nut and the sitting height for the rod was higher, but the distance between the fixed rod rests (included in the package) got closer making it at times inpractical.

I came across mine again when moving from Lincolnshire to here in 1981 and decided I'd sling it in the bin having bought some better ones since (copies ). Sorry I did now (and at times wished I'd kept the chest bit off the top of the bra stand.)

You may wonder how I came across a bra stand in the first place, but I was employed in a general drapery showroom of the CWS at the time, my section was curtains and dress fabrics and opposite was the corsets and bras section. Had great fun one day when we took a lower section manikin (waist to feet) and stuck the feet out of my mates car's back window and drove around Manchester. How daft I was in my younger years. mg: