carp wise up

in the warm weatherin April me and my fishing partner were catching as many as 6 or7 carp each of the top on bread in a couple of hours but having been caught several times the carp are too cleaver and we only get about 2 or 3


anyone else find this and did you find a way to fool them?

Early season wise up - and yes

Carp do wise up, they also forget to a certain extent.

A small change can often bring good rewards, try floating trout pellets and get them fighting over every pellet before you start fishing.

I've been lucky enough to be given the keys to a private lake. Only a few fish it and only one other for the carp, so they probably see an angler once a week.

But they are getting very canny indeed. The other day I took a guest and he had two off the top. I left it six hours and tried for one myself.

There was no way on Earth they were coming out from under that tree again...they'd eat what I threw inside their cover, but ignore the few bits at the edge.

I hadn't even taken a rod around to that side of the lake expecting this to happen.

But I did get them feeding again on the previous visit by using different bait..in this case some fishmeal dog biscuits that they hadn't seen before and went berserk after.....


I've been cautious fishing this lake because I know from bitter experience it's all to easy to kill a water.


I once fished out 16 carp on floating boosted breadcrust in one afternoon. I was silly enough to go back the next day. I caught three. I left it two days and went again. I blanked!

Lesson learned the hard way

yes
I'm fishing the margins now in the evening o nthe bottom - and catching carp

Catching them off the top has always fascinated me... it's got to be one of the most exciting (and frustrating!) methods available to anglers. It's amazed me on a couple of occasions just how quick the time can fly by when you've got fish in front of you that will take the occasional one or two floaters...

But it's also interesting that on some days, they can seem completely dis-interested in anything on the top (despite the conditions seeming perfect) whereas on others they're almost suicidal!

Surely (as in many things in angling) its this variation that keeps us wanting more?

I think the thing to keep in mind is, what you see on the surface is largely mirrored on the bottom. It's just that you can see the fish refusing your bait on the top. If you saw how many times fish swim near to, or even mouth your bottom bait you would pull your hair out.

I've caught lots of carp on the surface, including some big ones. Here's how I go about it.

Use a zig rig or fish right under your rod top without any of the line laying on the water. The menicus caused by a floating line leading to your hook bait will spook any carp. If you can't fish under your rod top, use a fluorocarbon leader of at least 3 yards from your controller float. Kryston Incognito is the best - 10lb or thereabouts.

Baits - Chum Mixers, bread crust and a variety of floating pellets will all work, the secret is to get the carp feeding in ernest on the floaters, this may take time, as might the feeding off of the ducks.

Use a 8 or 10 high quality hook and superglue the mixer or pellet to it. For bread, use brown or wholewheat and rig it so that the hook comes out of the crumb side of a piece half the size of a matchbox.

Make sure the leader is well degreased using the stuff used by fly fishers and make sure the whole of the leader is sunk, with only the bait floating.

When carp take a floating bait they tend to dash of at a hell of a speed and will break you if you are not expecting it.

Wear camo clothes and get down on you stomach if you have to.

That's interesting Ron.

Graham Marsden recommends the opposite - ie a floating leader, well greased.

I've recently had some absolute spooked-fish refusals, until I sunk my leader more thoroughly with a Korum Quickstop. The leader was fluro, OK, but it didn't sink without just a little help. I simply used the Quickstop to join my mainline to my leader. They are rated to 20lbs, but they can certainly take more than that.

I prefer cheap sliced white bread so I can see it, and it's far tougher if you toast it VERY gently, without colouring it at all, then stick it all back in the bag it came from...it seems to give it a tough leathery skin that holds the hook well. Just turning a few slices in the Sun can do much the same.

There is a certain dog biscuit that is 70 % fishmeal and goes rubbery like a big pellet when soaked lightly. As you might imagine, the fish fight over them. I'll keep the make to myself for a while longer.

I use a floating a leader well greased for mono, IMO flouro needs to be sunk because of it's reftection in direct sunlight.

On my lake I have a pretty seroius drift which,along with any wind, tends to move the floating bread about considerably. Although it is fraught with risk I try,where possible to cast upwind/up drift of overhanging trees (where they trail in the water) and allow the bread bait to drift in under the branches.
Sometimes I use a float made from the tops of two bird quills (joined with a bit of dowelling) fished double rubber which lays flat on the surface (and make maximum use of wind etc)to slow down or stop the bread from travelling too far or to allow the bread to swing right under the branches. I have found the fish take ONLY when the bread has come to complete stop by resting against (for example) a root or leaf.....
Its a bit heart in mouth but it does work!

The other method i use successfully is anchored crust (discussed several times on other threads) where the bread is allowed to float to the surface with the bomb on the bottom-even in 12' of water! The bread will be 2" square (on a size 2 hook) or so to allow it to reach the surface and it REMAINS IN THE SAME PLACE instead of drifting away from fish you can see.
The line, with 10" of Silkworm at the sharp end obviously rised near vertically from the bottom and is fished slack. I fish with a baitrunner as some takes are without warning, but more as a safety measure than anything else. when a carp takes it is very easy to feel the fish through the rod or by watching the line as it enters the water.
yes, the fish will,on occasion turn way if it feels the line but this rarely happens (on my water) and because the bread is motionless they invariably return after a while...

The whole point of this method is the bread remaining in one place allowing the fish to find it.....They do circle the bait, sometimes for many minutes but rarely do they move off permanantly. More importantly no line is ON the surface!!
I use a standard 'Tin Loaf' (mine is from Waitrose because it is always very fresh) and just cut pieces from the crust to suit.
Almost without exception the hook is just inside the mouth which for me proves the method is efficient and reliable.


One last point; Sometimes I mount the bread so the white side is uppermost and sitting ABOVE the water (so the crust is flat on the surface) when bites are tentitive or with the crust uppermost (so all of the white is below the surface) when the fish are really going for it!
If bites slow or the fish are turning way then I 'turn the bread over' and try again...

I first read of this method many years ago (that man Walker again I'm afraid!) and it does produce good fish on a regular basis when other anglers are failing...

Give it a trial-you may be suprised!!


ps This morning I had two carp either side of 10lbs on this very method.....The carp approached 3/4 times before taking with a seemingly very slow slurp na dvery exciting fishing it was too!!

I don't like the idea of a floating leader at all. Do a little experiment: allow some monofilament to float on the surface of the water in a beer glass or something similar and look upwards. The line, floating on the surface film, causes an identation which can be easily seen. It looks like a swimming snake.

Make that line sink and the visibility of the line lessens tremendously.

As regards fluorocarbon, this is much heavier than nylon or copolymer and provided it is degreased, it will sink quite quickly. The problem with fluorocarbon is that if a length of the line is floating above the water and is in the direct rays of the sun, it will transmit the light along the line below the water, causing a fish scaring streak.

All this was made known to me by one of England's top fly fishing match anglers who has spent many hours conducting experiments on various rigs.

The earlier work in this vein was done by John Goddard and Brian Clarke and reported, with excellent photographs, in their book: "Trout and the Fly".

brilliant thread very informative , understand perfectly about time flying when surface fishing it does for me too.

I have fished loads for roach with a whip and a pole rig with no shot on it , when the ants are hatching it can be a bite every 20 seconds , massive massive fun.

Just borrowed a bubble float from my son and managed to get some canal carp feeding off Furnace Mill floaters but wouldn't touch my bait , Think it was because I used an ordinary hook to nylon with a band on it , which was only 15 inch long and maybe too close to the bubble.

great reading this !

Another way that makes sure your line isn't on the surface is to deliberately cast over a low twig. You can't do it over every branch, it has to be one your line can fall from easilly enough when a fish takes.


Using wind-drift to help you get around the far side of a tree can be very useful once the carp know you are there and they won't come out from the cover.

I've had my best results this year with 10lb, Berkeley Vanish fluorocarbon line as a leader or long hooklength. In fact it wouldn't sink without the Korum Quickstop on, which surprised me as a 4lb. fluoro hooklength and a wet 'dry-fly' sure sinks quick enough!


I used too stiff a rod and got some breaks, so I went to 15lb ESP fluoro and it was useless on the top. It sank so quickly it actually pulled the bead and the bait together as it sank in a great loop!

It seems the 10lb. fluoro from Berkeley was just right, with a little 'help' it just sank under the surface, but didn't sink any further. I just had to use a softer rod with it....which was a lot more fun anyway. I do agree that sometimes fluoro lines can flash light, but I think it happens rarely enough not to worry me. When I have seen it happen in the test tank at home I've never been able to make it do it again, but it does happen. from time to time. But then you can say that about any line except braid.

I had thought about a braid leader to deal with lillies and the like, but dropped the idea as it seemed it was just as likely to cut the fish. There are times when you simply can't let a carp run in the margins and a braid line seemed inappropriate to me.


I do agree about the way time stands still. I've sometimes watched a couple of bits of bread and felt a half hour had passed when in fact it was more like two hours. And when you DO get that bite...........

Very crafty carp last night won't come out of the reeds for floating bread, sunken bread, meat, sweetcorn or prawn, but happily hate the freebies in the reeds

I did manage to catch it by casting over the top of the reeds and reeling back in as close as I dared - took the bait(meat) after about 2 minutes - 5lb common

I'm going to try the zig rig and anchor the bread in one place just below the surface to see if that makes a difference

I did the same myself....went after carp on the top, yesterday.


Strewth! They were canny. I baited up and went back to the other side of the lake fishing for tench and crucians and once I heard the slurrping I went back over to them.


I spent 3 hours there!

Caught and lost two carp before tackling up stronger and waiting and waiting.
The fish didn't take my hookbait until I packed up and dismantled the rod!

When I went back over to the other side I could hear all the freebies being slurped up for the next hour.

I was earing dark green clothing and at my age it's easy to keep still so there's only one thing for it....to stop the fish knowing I am there I am going to have to buy my black and white dog some camo clothing.


I had to have a google, didn't I?

They actually make the stuff!.........

Camouflage Dog Coats 30in. Military/Army Dog Coats

I use pre-softened Chum Mixer purely as an attractor when surface fishing floating crust and particularly under trees....I fire 2/3 pieces into the branches which allows it to drop onto the water with little disturbance and invariably (but certainly not always!) it brings the fish to the surface and induces a take on the crust.
This may seem odd-using a different bait as an attractor-but bread has little smell and CM,particularly soaked in weak marmite, certainly has that,in spades!

Personally I suggest the biggest problem is getting the fish in a relaxed state which is not easy by any means- think about how many times you've seen fish sink from sight at a slight movement or sound- and that means all the usual precautiions have to be taken x 10 simply because you want the fish up in the water......For example I try never to have any part of the rod over the water which means I'm well back from the edge at all times. Regardless of what tackle you're using, if the fish have been alarmed in any way you're unlikely to catch on the top...

My most successful times are very early morning and if possible way before anyone else is around AND my chosen swim leaves little opportunity for someone to come thumping by!
Everything I do on the bank is in comparative slow motion always working toward a single cast which drops the bait in the right spot...


ps From about 8am onward I tend to think my chances are diminshing by the minute (longer if under a tree in the shade) and certainly by midday the chances are almost nil-on my water anyway!!!

No, it doesn't always work but I do give myself the best chance by keeping quiet and very still for as long as it takes!