Centre pins for idiots

Hi all,new to the forum.I've just bought myself a centrepin reel(Leeds)to do a bit of trotting(always fancied having a dabble and i like the way of a more direct contact with the fish) for some Chub etc on a river/weirs near me.
So i'd just like some tips to get started with the pin.Should i have the line coming off the top off the reel or the bottom etc.
Any info on how to use pins would be most helpful.
I have just purchased a dvd of John Wilson on centre pin fishing,has anyone seen it,will it be of any use to a beginner.
Many thanks,Gary

Top or bottom of the reel?

Now that might cause some controversy.

For many years I had the line coming off the top of the reel and managed very well. The only problem here is that it doesn't suit Wallis casting too well.

These days I prefer the line coming from the bottom of the reel with a line guard. I have two centre-pins: a John Wilson Heritage with a removable line guard if I wanted to Wallis cast, and a Rapidex II with a caged construction. Both reels are made by JW Young of Redditch and are quite expensive.

For virtually all my centrepin fishing I use the Nottingham cast which is done by taking loops of line from the reel between the first and second rings.

Two features I insist on when it comes to centre pins is an adjustable drag, and a ratchet. Some of the modern ones have neither.

That DVD would certainly be of use to anyone starting to use a centre-pin.

Welcome to the site Gary,

I set my reel the same way as Ron, with the line coming off the bottom, and my preffered cast is also the Nottingham cast.

I have the J.W. DVD and it's an enjoyable watch, you will get the basics of using a centerpin, although John does tend to fish heavier than I do. I tend to fish for roach dace and grayling with mine where he tends to go for chub.

ohhh yeah, I had a Leeds 'pin a few years ago, these days I use a Shakespeare Aerial.

If you use the search box at the top of the page, you'll find loads of threads on 'pins!

Your reel is a ball-bearing job, so it's designed to run freely when it's vertical, beneath the rod. You'll see some chaps using their reels flat - often laying it on one knee - this is how the "true" pins run best (just so you know you haven't necessarily met the village idiot).

Thanks for th replies chaps,i'll check out the pins threads and have a good read.

Rodney,how did you get on with the Leeds pin and why did you change,cheers,Gary

Hi gary,welcome to the forum,your Leeds reel should give years of excellant service,they are up there with the best for trotting, put line on coming off top and give it a try (you only want about 50 yds or so unless you may hit big fish)see how you get on,if you find this awkward just run it off and reel in other way ....Aerials are a classic design of about 100 yrs old and are true pins (not ball bearings),the idea is to keep spool weight down to give what canadians call "low start up" for wallis casting,most of the weight of the spool is spread around the periphery,a lot of anglers like this design with spokes,like wire wheels on classic sports cars.

The idea of the "spokes" of course was Henry Coxon's when he designed the original Coxon Aerial in the 1890s. I believe he was involved in bicycle design, that's where the spokes came from.

They are very handy of course as you can retreive line quickly by giving the spool a flick using the spokes.

My JW Heritage uses a ball bearing and is very free running no matter what angle they are held. My Rapidex is a true centrepin - no bearing.

The Coxon Aerials were the state of the art fishing reels 100 years ago. They cost a heck of a lot of money then - over ?2 I believe; that's about the equivalent of ?600 today. Only the very wealthy anglers could afford them.

"what canadians call "low start up" for wallis casting,most of the weight of the spool is spread around the periphery"

That would make it just like a flywheel - in which the idea is to maximise the momentum while keeping the mass low.

Remind me to be wary of Canadian engineering.

One "dog" of a reel which spins for ages is the "Maxima", a heavy-rimmed soup-plate of a thing - strong, and at 5.5", a nifty winch - but horrid for trotting or Wallis casting.

As usual, it's a compromise between a light rim (low inertia = easy start-up, plus it can be braked without thumb-burns) and a heavy one to keep the spool turning once started.

Mass near the spindle contributes much less to inertia/momentum, so there's no point in scrimping on metal here; its the stuff that holds rim to spindle that can usefully be lightened, by spoking or drilling.

Bizarrely, we see the reverse daftnesses in cycling, where riders lose sleep over how light they can get their rims, despite the fact that in most cases, losing a few ounces of lard would speed their acceleration more, and that having got the heavy rim started, it'll keep going!

Cyclists also became obsessed with brake levers lightened by drilling, to the point at which the manufacturers had to step up the gauge of the metal to avoid dangerous weakening, with the result that the new brakes, well-drilled, weighed more than the originals with no drillings! But, hey, they sold well. Beware the same phenomenon in reels.

What seems to me to be the ultimate silliness in reel design - and I'd be really glad to be corrected on this - is found on the "Flick 'em" reels with spokes on the back of the spool, and a plain front. Those spokes don't do anything! they end in points sitting in a groove in the rim. They aren't attached to the rim, so they aren't tension members; and if they're meant as aids to centering, during construction, then why don't Rapidexes and Trudexes need them? But they look good (even though you have to take the spool off to see them), and I bet that was reflected in the price!

P.S. Gary - in summary, don't worry, you have a very good reel for practical fishing!

The only problem I've had with my Leeds is the inconvenience of not having a quick-release spool when I screw up and get the line trapped behind the spool.(I know, if I spent more time fishing and less just thinking about it , I wouldn't be so clumsy!)
I'm told that a tool for removing the nut that holds the spindle on can easily be filed from a twopenny bit. For the princely sum of, er, tuppence!

Do you know Alan, one of the finest centre-pins I ever used in my life was the old Speedia. During the early 60s you could pick one up for 35 bob!

They were a true centre-pin with a check and an adjustable drag. At one time I think that every member of the Northern Specimen Group owned one of these reels.

Let's look at another bit of bullsh*t that goes around about centre pins and that is they must spin for at least N number of seconds or even minutes! I've seen blokes spinning reels whilst looking at their watches and then proclaiming that a darned good reel is no good.

My own JW Heritage spins for just over 1 minute. But if I wanted it to spin longer it's easy. Give the spindle a spray with WD 40 to free off the more viscose lube grease and take the handles off. The amount of air resistance caused by the handles is considerable.

But I like the handles on, and as the reel spins to even a tiny stick float on a slow moving river it will do for me.

I really wish I'd invested in one in my youth, Ron. I have several, all second-hand and wobbly, but even so, a joy to use. There's something about the depth of the arbour that's just right - not so deep that you can hardly retrieve line, nor so shallow that the line constantly spills off in a side-wind.
That said, I "have issues with" pillared arbours. One issue, really; the "corners" they put in the line, which always get involved in an argument over precedence and won't go through the rings. Not a big problem with a seven-ringed, 10' cane rod, but with a modern, heavily-ringed 17-footer, a royal pain in the Khyber. I must load one up with braid, and see if that sorts it!
In all but the most raging floods, I now tend to use a Trudex or a Rapidex for nearly all my trotting. The Trudex has that same "rightness" as the Speedia, IMHO. And no bickering kinks.

Hi chaps,i want to tackle a couple of small weirs near me,what kind of set up/baits would you suggest i use(would like to keep it as simple as possible bearing in mind that i have not float fished with my own kit for 20 years,got back into fishing a couple of years ago after a good 10+ years gap and have only lure fished in this time). Weir contains some double figure carp,not that i'm going to target them, as i want to start on the small stuff while i get used to centre pin fishing.Also the section of river that runs up to the weirs has some nice Chub in,any help would be most welcome,cheers,Gary
P.S like the look of the Rapidex myself.

For a first visit, I'd try mashed bread + bread flake, hemp and tares, and any slugs/worms I could muster. For a first exploration, an Avon float with most of the shot bulked, plus one dropper shot - big enough to register on the float when it sinks.
I'd start at the top of the stretch, feeding mash and trotting bread, a few minutes in each swim; if you get "that" feeling about a swim, sit down a while and give it a spell on hemp. Any bits too shallow for the float - and I'll cheerfully trot 18" of water on a small river - but where chub are showing to free offerings, whip the rig off, tie on a big hook (6-ish) and freeline a slug or a big bit of flake. Slugs sink, and have to be trundled quite carefully, keeping in touch with the bait; a big bit of flake sinks slowly, and can be allowed to pull line directly from the reel - when the rod thumps because the reel can't keep up, that's a chub!
Weirs themselves can be s*ds to fish because of all the vertical eddies and undertows, so don't be seduced into wasting too much time there - the fish don't need the extra oxygen at this time of year, and there's no point busting your bits getting to grips with a swim whose senior residents have moved out! BUT leave no slack, gap in the weeds, or possible undercut unsniffed - you never know!
At the neck of the weir are usually shallows - still freelining country - but the prime bit, especially if the shallows are long, will be the point where they deepen. There, fish will lie picking off anything that lost its footing over the whole length of the shallows. A couple of tries freelining, then back on with the float rig, holding back hard to keep the bait up over the shallows, then letting it run so it sinks as it reaches the deeps.
If you reach the bottom of the stretch, work your way back up using upstream leger tactics to fish the swims you most fancied (and fed) on the way down - but keep an open mind and read each swim!
If you're very organised, one of those mini tape-recorders is a sight more handy than a note-book - write up your notes at work (I DIDN'T say that!) and you'll have a headful of ideas to try out next time!

Gary,
I found the Leeds to be a very free running reel and even using the lighter floats I prefered at times it performed very well. I had a Shakespear Lincoln as well but didn't like it and when I was taking it back I saw the Aerial and fell in lust..... just had to have it. The aerial is another made by JW Youngs by the way.

The only reason I don't have it now is when I bought the Aerial, I gave the Leeds to my brother and I've never got it back, as you can tell he likes it too )

You can pay an absolute bomb for a centre pin reel. If people think that centre pin reels from Youngs are expensive, they should try looking at a few of the independent small craftsmen who are making them.

Anything up to ?1000 for a spool and spindle. Even Ray Walton's Rolling Pin is nearly ?500.

The Aerial style with spokes is perhaps the best design of the lot, but it's also the most expensive to manufacture.

Two great replies alan,what i meant about aerials is the spokes keep the weight down thereby giving a low start up while most of the weight being near the perifery cause them to run for a long time..thereby pleasing both schools,lol..............Dont discount canadian reels till you have a look here http://www.questoutdoors.net/php bbz/about172-0-asc-15.html

ah well that link thing didn't work ,maybe some kind soul can sort it as i am useless with computers...well worth a look as there are some brilliant pins on there.....

Ah, I see now. As long as no new recruit pin-heads run away with the idea that spin-time is the be-all and end-all; that way, madness and poverty lie!

Couldn't work the link directly, so had a browse; the Islander looks a bit of a dream, doesnt it? But I'm puzzled by the centre screw - is it a conical bearing like one end of a multiplier spool?

The Mykiss is even sexier-looking, but has the shallow arbour that makes me wary of the Match Aerial and the Lincoln - I suspect it can be dodgy in a side-wind!

Christ..did you look at all 25 pages in 20 mins.? took me 2 hrs drooling..not sure about the Islander,think it's ball bearings,bit of a favourite over there....i liked some of the russian reels on page 18 but spools a bit narrow...BTW i have got 3 lb fireline on one of my Leeds,still get kinks i'm afraid but still nice to trot with especially at range,would depend on rod of course ,i use a 12 ft. waggler rod so no probs.