Has Angling Times lost the plot?

...when he wrote in last weeks editorial comment column ?No one has the right to judge whether a pike has less value than a roach or perch??

Everyone has the right to ?judge? whatever they like ? it?s a free country and we all enjoy free speech! More seriously though, Richard Lee seems to be suggesting that fishery owners and managers shouldn?t be able to manage fisheries for whatever outcomes that they as proprietors choose. Now I happen to enjoy pike and trout fishing, and if a trout fishery owner decided he wanted rid of any pike that had established themselves in his fishery, whilst thinking him to be unwise, I would utterly defend his right to run his own fishery in whatever way he, as the proprietor, chooses.

The last thing this sport needs is anglers who think that their favourite fish is somehow sacred, and then seek to impose their view on others who might have a different view.

no angling times hasn't lost the plot i fully support richard in what he says.

you on the other hand don't seem to have a firm grasp on it.
as for the trout fishery owner why should they be allowed to kill our indigenous species just to fill the water with american vermin.

the only use for a rainbow trout is to feed a pike up nice and big.

Firstly I must say that I have not read the article in the angling times but on reading both of the above when are the angling fraternity going to stop the bickering between coarse and game and realise that all it does is give more ammunition to the antis as reported in the trout fisherman magazine about an incident at Lancs. Bank House Fishery this could just as easily been at any fishing venue .

If the fishery owner created the waterway from scratch and stocked the waterway with stock purchased from his own pocket then yes he does hae the right to engineer the stocking levels to what ever requiremnts meet his commercial needs using whatever methods he chooses (within the law)

But

That does not im my opinion for what its worth mean that anyone with enough cash to purchase a "natural" waterway should be allowed to ruin a balanced eco-system for the sake of profit.

Lee, 'creates a waterway from scratch'. Does this include every flooded gravel pit, as well as every purpose built commercial?

And 'balance'is what, exactly? Who decides when an eco-system is in equilibrium? I suspect it never is, except when looked at over time when the peaks and troughs of the boom and bust of the various stock components have evened out.

I'm not trying to be confrontational, I just think there's an interesting point of principle lurking in this issue.

I think the case of rivers is particularly interesting, with them having upstream and downstream proprietors. Just wait until catfish introduced into UK rivers start eating the Carp and Barbel. The Cataholics will go ballistic when the river carpers ('real' carp fishing, IMHO) and the barbellers want a cat cull..................

Noel, Dave, couldn't agree more.

Unfortunately you are wasting your time arguing with those who think that fish are their special surrogate little children who should never be killed, culled, controlled or eaten. If they're that bloody precious then what the hell are they doing fishing for them at all ?

And who thereby give aid and comfort to the likes of PETA etc. whether they think they are or not.

Fundamentally the same attitude as animal activist terrorists, that animals and fish are as or even more important than human beings. That way leads to such atrocities as grandma's body being dug up by those who "know" that they are right and everyone who disagrees with them is wrong and - paradoxically - deserves to die in pursuit of the right to life...

Lee;
what waterway in this country is still "natural" in any meaningful sense after hundreds of years of managed cultivation ?

And look at the damage that a suggested return to "natural" ways ie. neglect has done to the Broads by way of example..... In complete ignorance, it would appear, of the history of the Broads and that they are a manmade feature in the first place (dating back to Roman times if not earlier).

I agree with you that it is a crying shame if anyone should destroy a balanced natural eco system. Not that I can see what is in it for the river owner in question.

What I disagree with is the next step to control, regulation, more bloody inspectors, civil servants, form filling, regulations and erosion of what little remains of our freedoms.

Wels are not indigenous and therefore exempt from any kind of protection from myself I will be catching and killing any catfish I see on the Trent.

""Lee, 'creates a waterway from scratch'. Does this include every flooded gravel pit, as well as every purpose built commercial?""

Just so long as the pit is not "established"

How many more turgid cess pits full of genetically corrupted disease carrying **** head magnets do we need?

Just to clarify my position on Trent catfish

If I saw a wels sunbathing in the margins I would launch a bankstick/boulder/tree/ small child at is head harpoon style.

Or try to catch it using a skinned mink as bait.

I've never seen the attraction, either Lee. Is there a fish uglier than a cat? Little piggy eyes, flabby body, big mouth with whiskers... like a piscine Eddie Bibby! (Just jokin, Ed)

I have even less understanding of anyone who goes to Canada to catch a sturgeon. Part crocodile, part Hoover, with a brain smaller even than a PETA member's.

It must be the same pleasure people get out of shooting an elephant - "yeah, it's easy but they do make a big thump when they hit the deck."

On the other hand, I guess the counterpoint is cathcing fry on a size 26 baited with an amoeba, loosefeeding bacteria to keep 'em coming...

?If I saw a wels sunbathing in the margins I would launch a bankstick/boulder/tree/ small child at is head harpoon style?.

This is a wonderful suggestion!
Little children are becoming a nuisance, and very fat! The Victorians had the right idea of course, get em up the chimneys. But not anymore, because the little buggers live on chips and tizer, they are too fat to get through the school gates never mind up an average sized chimney.

I suggest that someone emails Bob Nuddie, and asks him to head a campaign to exterminate these catfish from any waters they should not be in!
He has a bit of clout you know! I quite like his hat as well!

?It must be the same pleasure people get out of shooting an elephant - "yeah, it's easy but they do make a big thump when they hit the deck."

When did Bob Nuddie shoot this elephant??.is it just a rumour, or has he advocated a complete cull in his Sunday news paper column??????

This is disgraceful, fishery owners should be allowed to stock elephants if they wish, would you rather catch a huge catfish that is uglier than your mother in law?or feed an elephant currant buns!
Something must be done!

LOL!

"Little piggy eyes, flabby body, big mouth with whiskers..."

Hey... I didn't claim to be pretty, and you are wrong about the whiskers... OK I don't shave often but really...

Lee;

couldn't agree with you more about the danger catfish present in rivers - what people who think its clever to put them in forget is that they simply hoover up everything that swims.
Everything.
Yep, that's everything.
No exceptions.

A huge environment like the Ebro may well provide a honeymoon period with amazing huge catfish catches for a while. For now. Eating the pre-existing bio-mass. But not for long. And not forever.

When the 20 - 30lb carp prey-fish (!!!!!) are all gone then just watch the Ebro fishery die and the big cats with it.

Sterile in what, 8 - 12 years from now ? Lack of other species of fish already being reported, so could be less. Anyone for a sweepstake on it ?


And the elephant issue.... I wouldn't think it one iota a sport now with modern weaponry and the steady march to extinction. Grossly unsporting and apallingly irresponsible to our planet, children and grandchildren. Shooting endangered species for ivory or penises (tigers to Japan.... grrrr) should be a crime against humanity and dealt with as such IMHO.

But that doesn't mean I don't have some grudging respect for the bravery and sportsmanship of the Victorian elephant hunter who would on occasion be called upon to stand in the path of a rampaging killer male in must with a black powder elephant gun with a 50 / 50 chance of a misfire and a bearer with a second gun to hand but with an 80 / 20 chance of breaking and running before handing it to you....

Would you have the guts for it ? Precious few did then or would have now I think. The sporting aspect all fell apart with the advance in quality and power of the weaponry and demand for ivory to make billiard balls and piano keys (honest, that was where 95% of it all went....) causing brood females as well as rogue males to be shot.

Is there perhaps a lesson there to be learnt for angling ?

The challenge of Carp puddles - NOT - hmmmmmm.....

Right!

Steve Davis kills elephants to make snooker balls does he now!!!!!!

THE GINGER BASTARD!

Sorry, no orange balls in snooker (except in Steve Davis's pants....)

The paradox of the African elephant is interesting.

In some parts of Africa, elephants are so abundant they have become a nuisance. Capable of stripping large areas of bush, they are threatening the existance of many other wild African species, so they have to be culled.

In other areas, due to poaching, elephants have become virtually extinct. All this is due to the action of man of course, creating elephant sancturies on the one hand and shooting everything that moves on the other.

As for catfish in this country - Lee has it right. Get rid of them.

why is it ron that you hate every none indigenous fish except the american ones.

All fish have a value and Angling Times is right to suggest that we should not put one species above the other, especially carp.

But that leads to a moral dilemma, we ask, and sometimes demand that yer average matchman returns all pike, and then we use his chosen sport fish as bait! Now, that is a discussion that could run and run!

Yeah, lets get rid of carp, rainbow trout, catfish, zander......in fact if we get rid of all roach, rudd, tench, chub, barbel etc and leave just the glacial species such as the powan then we'll get back to how it used to be "in the good old days".

I'm all for stocking barramundi and tiger fish, I think the Thames would be perfect. A few muskies should do nicely in the Trent.