Soft Mouths

Bob Hornegold · Aug 23, 2011

I fish a water with a decent head of Carp up to around Mid 30ties, but over recent years the lake has changed and has become very Silty.

The Carp have become preoccupied on Bloodworm and filtering it out with the silt.

This seems to have caused the Carp to have very soft mouths and as a result Hook Pulls.

Is there any suggestion as to how you can stop the hook pulls ?

Bob

steph mckenzie · Aug 23, 2011

Perhaps use a Rod with a softer action ??
Perhaps a length of Pole Elastic (Power Gum) between the mainline and the Hook Length to act as a Bungee, a bit like you get with elasticated Method Feeders.

As you can probably tell i'm not sure and i'm just clutching at Straws.

barbelboi · Aug 23, 2011

[FONT=&quot]If you are not casting far Bob the softer rod option makes sense (personally I wouldn't like to try the power gum option where big fish reside). A barbless hook probably makes the process of ejection somewhat easy on a softer mouth as a carp will often shake it’s head vigorously and the weight of the attached bait flicking from side to side can help lever the hook point back out of the flesh and lose grip. Another thought, if they are so preoccupied with tiny food a larger offering may only be half heartedly taken leading to an 'only just hooked' situation thus leading to a pull.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jerry
[/FONT]

noknot · Aug 23, 2011

I've heard of this many times, but IMO it's utter tosh!

dannytaylor · Aug 23, 2011

I dont know? i can very well believe it. Some of the river carp ive caught in france have huge rubbery mouths that are really hard to get a hook out of! Im sure its due to them forraging among rocks and gravel for snails, muscles crayfish etc and then having to crunch them up. So i can well believe that carp predominatly feeding in soft silt for worms and larvae will develop over time "softer mouths"

Bob maybe try a critically balanced "wafter" type bait which well shoot far back into the carps mouth with little suction, worth a try

chris774 · Aug 23, 2011

Try a hook with an in turned point, (beaked point). These seem to get more secure hook holds.

mol · Aug 23, 2011

I fished a very siltly lake for years and the fish had very soft mouths as a result, hook pulls where fairly common for alot of anglers but I had very few. The best thing you can do is use big hooks, I mostly fished with 4's and 6's. A big hooks has a wide gape and can 'grap' alot of flesh when it penetrates, this extra flesh really does help to stop hook pulls. Alot of anglers seemed to think that a big hook will put the carp off but in my experience it doesn't, a carp doesn't know what a hook is, particularly if you can remove the weight of the hook.

I never used to strike into fish either, if the baitrunner was whirling then the fish was hooked. Striking IMO is more likely to move the hook and widen the hole on soft mouthed fish then help it penetrate.

Oh, play the fish smoothly with a slackish drag if possible and never bully them

Bob Hornegold · Aug 24, 2011

I use soft Rods, Harrison Multi carp Through action, I also us size 8 Mugga hook hooks.

So I will try slightly bigger hooks, with smaller baits.

Before this lake became silted up, we never had a problem, but many of the anglers on this pond are suffering Hook Pulls.

The fish are quite big and the place is full of Lillies, so you have to be fairly firm whem playing these Carp.

It's a Problem ?

Bob

Fred Blake · Aug 24, 2011

Soft rods are the answer - perhaps even softer than you are currently using. The stepped up avon blank Harrison do (1lb 10oz) is perfect for small water and margin carping where you are not using heavy leads - and if the carp are soft-mouthed (which I know from experience do exist!) you don't want to be using a lead bigger than an ounce anyway. Just because the rod is soft doesn't mean you are forced to fish light lines either; 15lb can be used quite safely if necessary, and due to the action of the rod you can put more pressure on the fish than you can with a stiffer rod due to the effect of leverage.

Mugga hooks are too fine in the wire for my liking. The Korda wide-gapes would be ideal if they were only halfway sharp; as it is I tend to use Super Specialists in size 4 or 6, which have enough gape to hold the fish whilst being lighter than most equivalent carp hooks, so a size 6 can be used with a couple of particle grains without compromising presentation. If I need something a bit stronger (where that 15lb line is needed) I use Fox Series 1 in size 8. I'd like the very strong Gold Label SS Penetrator better if it didn't have an in-turned point, which I find doesn't so much help keep the hook in as prevent it going in in the first place.

dezza · Aug 24, 2011

Get yourself a pair of Fishing Magic Concepts and use with 12 lb line.

Sorted!

noknot · Aug 24, 2011

Sorry, still not convinced...... Iv'e fished waters with 4' of silt and seen no difference apart from the colour of their lips!

barbelboi · Aug 24, 2011

[FONT=&quot]There seems to be some differences in opinion so here goes, it will be interesting to get other opinions as to the why’s where’s and what’s that I'm letting myself in for

. IMO carp which spend most of their time feeding in silt will have softer mouths, while carp from gravel pits and lakes with bottoms mostly formed from clay, stone etc will have quite hard mouths. While carp with soft mouths are more prone to hook pulls from the hook tearing out, carp with hard mouths are more prone to hook pulls because the hook has not gone in far enough and taken a good hold. Whether they are hard or soft, its not really an issue, because they are the way they are, trying to prevent hook pulls is a different matter, and sometimes playing a fish too softly can be as lethal as playing it too hard. A carp is trying to get rid of the hook from the moment it feels it, and they can become quite good at getting rid of it. Hookpulls are a fact of life when carp fishing, everybody gets them.:wh
Jerry

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mol · Aug 24, 2011

barbelboi said:
[FONT=&quot]IMO carp which spend most of their time feeding in silt will have softer mouths, while carp from gravel pits and lakes with bottoms mostly formed from clay, stone etc will have quite hard mouths. While carp with soft mouths are more prone to hook pulls from the hook tearing out, carp with hard mouths are more prone to hook pulls because the hook has not gone in far enough and taken a good hold. Whether they are hard or soft, its not really an issue, because they are the way they are, trying to prevent hook pulls is a different matter

[/FONT]

The primary concern for landing soft mouthed carp is preventing the hook from ripping out the flesh as you play the fish, good penetration is relatively easy to obtain due to a soft mouth. A larger hook is better at this.

The primary concern for landing hard mouthed carp is getting good penetration and therefore a sound hook hold. You might well be better off with a smaller, thinner gauged hook as it will have good, quick penetration.

I don't understand why its such a leap of faith that carp can have different mouths, the enviroment can effect the body. My mate is a bricky and has hands like spades that are as rough as sandpaper, I work inside so have softer, delicate hands.

barbelboi · Aug 24, 2011

mol said:
I don't understand why its such a leap of faith that carp can have different mouths, the enviroment can effect the body. My mate is a bricky and has hands like spades that are as rough as sandpaper, I work inside so have softer, delicate hands.

As you quoted my post please note [FONT=&quot]'Whether they are hard or soft, its not really an issue, because they are the way they are, trying to prevent hook pulls is a different matter[/FONT]'

mol · Aug 24, 2011

barbelboi said:
As you quoted my post please note [FONT=&quot]'Whether they are hard or soft, its not really an issue, because they are the way they are, trying to prevent hook pulls is a different matter[/FONT]'

Sorry, that was for noknot

barbelboi · Aug 24, 2011

mol said:
Sorry, that was for noknot

No probs - read it the wrong way

Bob Hornegold · Aug 25, 2011

Soft Rods are of course the way to go, but on a water covered in Water Lillies, you have to have a comprimise.

The Multi Carp were through action rods, that bend forever, so I will just have to take it easier ?

The Carp below I caught last October and was one of the3 Carp that dropped off the other Night

View image in gallery

Bob

merlin83 · Aug 25, 2011

barbelboi said:
[FONT=&quot]If you are not casting far Bob the softer rod option makes sense (personally I wouldn't like to try the power gum option where big fish reside). A barbless hook probably makes the process of ejection somewhat easy on a softer mouth as a carp will often shake it’s head vigorously and the weight of the attached bait flicking from side to side can help lever the hook point back out of the flesh and lose grip. Another thought, if they are so preoccupied with tiny food a larger offering may only be half heartedly taken leading to an 'only just hooked' situation thus leading to a pull.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jerry
[/FONT]

How soft or stiff the rod is should have no impact at all on how far your casting its more about tip speed imo.

Fish the lead to drop off on the take & softer rod would help.

barbelboi · Aug 25, 2011

merlin83 said:
How soft or stiff the rod is should have no impact at all on how far your casting its more about tip speed imo.

Fish the lead to drop off on the take & softer rod would help.

So you would use a soft rod to cast a lead 100m

merlin83 · Aug 26, 2011

barbelboi said:
So you would use a soft rod to cast a lead 100m

i have a pair of 2.25tc anglers workshop rods & have put rigs 140 yrds

any modern carp rod should be capable of putting a rig 100 meters no big rings or high test curve needed imo. 50 mm rings & all the other jargen is for tornament casters to get the best out of. Lighter the rod is quicker you can move it acheiving more distance.

Soft Mouths

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