Otter Predation

I am not suggesting that these fish kills were made by MINK. But I have seen fish kills by Mink which were very similar to the first two photographs of the Eel and the Tench.

What I would like know is how do you tell the difference between an Otter and a Mink attack on a fish?

Very true Baz, mink are ruthless killers, often killing in excess of their needs, hence the discarded corpses.
Eels are considered otters' favourite food for otters to kill and consume.
Mink will attack animals superior in size and it was considered this aggressive competition, was partly responsible for the decline in otter numbers, as well as other aquatic dependants.
Assuming mink took the otters' place in the predatory chain, their activities received a burst of frenzied publicity, (remember the hysterical pieces in the Sun etc late 60's & 70's) unlike the concerted efforts currently 'directed' against otters, .......... why?
If the trapping of mink is encouraging the return of the otter, are they co-existing rather than competing?
I have heard it suggested, that mink have driven otters away from running water onto still, but don't both animals range in their hunt for food?
That being the case, as you say, without actually witnessing incidents, how can these 'kills' be attributed solely to one, or other of these animals.
If the extent of the problem, warrants the consideration of 'specialist' (expensive)fencing around fisheries, would not a discreet cull, every so often, be a more financially viable option?
Is the increase in commercial 'coarse' fisheries and a paranoid owners reaction, actually behind the attention this issue is receiving, rather than a rampant explosion in the otter, or mink population?
A radically in-expensive alternative, might be to name all valuable fish. Predators would then know not to eat them and they'd have immunity from other afflictions to boot!


Do you think I'd get a fencing grant for my pond?

He does state that it is definitely otters so they must have considered whether or not it was mink and they have had expert advice.

We have mink down at our local lake and thay have never predated on the many carp or the hundreds of bream in there and they live on the island in the middle of the lake as well as the surroundings.

If you mean me Steaker, couldn't tell you because I never fish for them in fact I'm no longer a member of the local club nor do I fish the lake. Wouldn't surprise me though cos theres a few twenties and a couple of thirties too.

I was wondering how you could tell the difference between an Otter and a Mink kill.

The two fish that I saw were minus their heads, and this deffinately was Mink. The bodies were left there and taken a few days later.

Baz where the bite marks are distinguishable, the distance between the killing teeth (canine in dogs) are greatly different in size. Mink 1 ? 11/2 inches, Otter 2 ? to 4 inches. Whilst both species tear the flesh from the carcass, otters flesh stripping is much larger than a mink.
Otters rarely scavenge or return to a carcass they have killed and dinned on some hours before. Mink on the other hand will do both.

There are perhaps two main reasons why eels are the preferred food source of otters
1. They are of a manageable size, which provides the animal with a full meal
2. Eels when distressed by a predator unlike other fish don?t swim away; they make for cover, a log, rock, etc. This flight response is adequate when being pursued by a piscean predator. But not when the creature has dexterous paws and claws, which can root it out of its refuge.
Where eels are plentiful food source there is an innate calculation made, known as the energy budget requirement.
It works like this - is the energy need to chase down fast swimming fish worth the effort and further depletion of energy reserves if a kill is not successful.
In the case of eels it is, because as stated they don?t swim very far, choosing to rely on hiding in the nearest cover.

I do have sympathy with the Cherry Tree club. I have fished Broome pits myself as a boy, many moons ago.

It seems that anglers will bear the brunt of the price of the resurgence of the otter population.

I love to see them, and there must be room for both anglers and otters in a healthy system.

We have to be very careful how we deal with this, and what we say about it though. I am sure that anyone not connected to angling will be on the otter's side, should the situation become perceived as a "power struggle".

In that context, describing natural otter behaviour (as the article does) as "mutilation", "savaging" etc is the wrong way to approach it.

There are otters on the Teme, I know I've seen them but they don't threaten the fish population, not to my knowledge anyway. You must always remember when talking about wild animals such as otters that nature has its own way of dealing with numbers, you understand that, everyone understands it.

In this case there is probably one otter in the area who has learned where to find food and he will continue to go back there unless man interferes and we all know what that means. Anglers must learn to live with a certain amount of predators they are natural, Pike and Perch exist only because they predate but it isn't in your face so to speak like half eaten fish on the bank.

Otters are fine creatures where they belong, on rivers. But scoffing fish and leaving body parts lying around on a small stillwater is only one step away from doing the same thing on your garden pond.

Would you then still tolerate them?

Blankety wrote: "In that context, describing natural otter behaviour (as the article does) as "mutilation", "savaging" etc is the wrong way to approach it."

Why, it's the truth and we shouldn't hide it with words that skirt round it. You could say the same thing about the pictures, which speak for themselves.

The otter is feeding. It is wrong to import human values into animal behaviour.

Take the cormorants for example. The villains of that story are not the birds (they are just doing what comes naturally) but the failure of the powers that be to allow a sensible approach to cormorant control.

If we want a sensible approach to otter control, I doubt we will get it if we set ourselves up as otter enemies. We need to be proposing ways that we can get along together.

The lead shot ban is an excellent example of anglers leading the way in dealing with situations where we come into conflict with nature.

And Graham, if otters had a go at my garden pond, I would put a fence up. If that didn't work (and I couldn't think of anything else) I would give up keeping fish.

This would remain the case while otters were still rare. If they became widespread and a pest (like cormorants) then I would lobby for the right to shoot them.

I am not suggesting that you don't stop it gaining access to the pool Graham, that is an acceptable solution but very costly of course. What I am totally against is some fool who lies in wait for it then shoots it or even worse poisoning it.

Expert advice is probably available and maybe that advice could include deterring it from visiting the pool in some way. I don't think it would go down very well if the otter were to be killed and the story leaked out, it wouldn't show angling in a very good light at all.

My post wasn't aimed at you Graham.

I like otters, I've spent many an hour watching a pair of them on the Dove and keeping quiet about it so that no moron goes along and shoots them.

Perhaps I didn't make my point too well, but what I'm saying is this:

If I was a member of the Cherry Tree club and I found mutilated bodies like those in the pictures, and had fish attacked while I was playing them in at night, I think I'd be quite upset.

And if, like the Cherry Tree club, we couldn't afford to fence the water, I'd be wondering what we should do. So, if by showing these graphic photos, and describing in no uncertain terms what the otters do, maybe the RSPCA or some other body that has all the questions for anglers and none of the answers, could provide some funding towards the fencing.

And then we'll all be happy.

Graham, as to your first point I entirely agree

As to your second, I agree with that as well, but I am not holding my breath for the RSPCA!

Its about time we started up some new organsiations and gain royal patronage.

How about:
RSP Fish
RSP Moluscs
RSP Small bird that are preyed on by Raptors.
RSP Worms
Even :
RSP Anglers

The choices are endless its just that Disney didn't brain wash the children -now grown up - into thinking them cuddly and human. Although my kids still love me!

As a well travelled and observant angler with more than 40yrs of angling under the belt, I'd be more than interested to know if the EA are in any way Culpable for the carnage caused by ever incerasing Otter predation throughout England and more so Wales.
It is fact that the EA has for a good number of years been so damned busy with its Direct Labout force ( EWF) creating Otter Holts and improving the Riverside habitat in conjunction with the various Otter Conservation and Preservation groups to the extent that it is happy to make reports of such activity in the various Internal reports to the various committees nationwide.
Some of what I have read on this forum makes my hair stand up with regard to the lack of knowledge as to Otter feeding requirements, territorial Needs and to the distances an otter will travel to find food.
A Dog otter will travel any distance between 1 and 15 kms between Holt stopovers to find food, and once it has found an easy larder ( Stocked lakes for example) it is pretty near impossible to do anything about it without risking a prosecution..... in the meantime its ringing the dinner bell to its mate and others !!!
Carp Lakes in N Wales have been ravaged since the re introduction of this voracious mammal and the EA advice provided is looked upon by the unfortunate recipients as a more than hopeless gesture.
Its about time the angling community woke up to the background cause for some of the damage done and forget the Mink to Otter comparisons which are fairly way off beam so far.
I'd suggest Riparian owners and Angling club Officials look to the EA for answers as to where in all of the 7 regions they are planning further works for the continued enticement and nurturing of this pet project.

In response to the comments made above on the article that I supplyed the photos for I would just like to add this.I like otters I think they are great creatures and I would not like to see one harmed in any way.However I feel the same way about specimen tench and carp,the frustration here is that we can do nothing to stop it.I joined the SAA because of Chris Burts help and advice and fully support all they are doing.I just wish there was one big angling body that had some real power to make changes where it matters most, its about time isnt it.Untill that happens I felt it was important for people to see in pictures just what otters can do to specimen fish and keep track of it which I am still doing on behalf of Bungay Cherry Tree angling club.

Its about time the angling community woke up to the background cause for some of the damage done and <u>forget the Mink to Otter comparisons</u> which are fairly way off beam so far.
......................................

Kieth.
Although you make a valid point it is also a valid question that I asked about the difference between a mink and otter kill. I think it is important that people know the difference.

Here is some information on the otter and its habits and contrary to what Keith Williams says they are solitary animals and don't invite their mates to food sources, thats rubbish.

The only time there will be more than one is when the female has young and they stay with her for about a year. Maybe you watched that wonderful programme about the otter on TV a while ago on one of the Devon rivers, Taw or Torridge I think.