OBESITY

F

Fred Bonney

Guest
I thought about this ,this morning as I awake early, in my exitement of a contemplated a session on the Trent,where no doubt my armoury, will consist of pellets.
I also thought, that it would be better posting my thoughts,and I may say others also, in the General Section,so as not to get,the them and us argument, coming into the equation by posting in the Carp and Barbel Sections.
I then also thought, that I didn't want to be accused,of giving fodder, to those who are against us.But,quickly overcome this problem by thinking, that human beings,according to some of the medical profession,are suffering from the same problem.And,therefore,more time should be spent on worrying about them,than mere fish.

So,at 5:45am,this is my question:


Are we subjecting our fish stocks, in both rivers and stillwaters, to the illnesses associated with eating junk food,(pellets).Primarily produced,some, not so few,years ago,to fatten up farmed fish for the table?

Now, this is not an original thought, by me, and I must acknowledge the planting of this thought in my mind, by an article in a Society magazine,which I will not mention at the moment,so as not to influence the knockers.

So,your sensible thoughts.... please.
 
F

Fred Bonney

Guest
I should add, that I didn't think that we should get into the argument of the merits of producing fish meal pellets and it's potential, or perceived threats and effects, to our sea going birds and animals.
So,if anybody wants to open up that arguement, can you do it somewhere else, and open up another thread....please

I also think it's sad in this angling world of ours,that I should be more worried about fellow anglers knocking a subject,than me asking,in my mind a straight forward question.
 
T

The Monk

Guest
just run that bit about the knockers past me again Fred?

no seriously, I`m convinced we are shortening the longevity of fish by introducing artificial baits which have been developed for increasing weights, we have seen this for many years in the carp world, some of the unnatural looking lumps that we see on a regular basis in the comics are evidence of this
 
F

Frothey

Guest
those unnatural lumps are simmo's monk!

i think the problem is greater on waters without enough natural food - if you look at the simmo's in wraysbury they look totally different to the ones in the average commercial. everything in moderation and all that. would've thought in most fairly fast flowing rivers they'd burn the fats off anyway.
 
B

BAZ (Angel of the North)

Guest
You have a good point Fred.
I have come across numerous Carp anglers this year who have gone back to useing the more natural baits. I think they also realise what is happening. And they don't like it.
 
R

Rich P

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
142
Reaction score
2
Location
Manchester
Frothey - you say 'they'd burn the fats off' in fast flowing rivers. Although true to an extent - it's also true that some foods are just plain unhealthy. Consider a human who has a fried breakfast every day and also runs 20 miles a week - the chances are that he'll still die at a relatively young age, despite burning off the fat whilst running.....

It's a no-brainer.

Surely then, the same applies to fish....?

By the way, I like your pic. I'm definitely a fan!
 
B

Bryan Baron 2

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 6, 2002
Messages
4,460
Reaction score
1
Location
Lancashire
I think a lot more research into this is needed.

With regards to the Breakfast analogy. Are fish oils not part of the better fats family's. Against the saturated fats of the average fry up. I know were meant to take more. Cod liver oil etc.

I also don't think the problem is helped when you see rticles in the mags and papers of well known anglers baitting up with a couple of kilo of boillies then topping this up over the session. Youngsters then go out and emulate this with the cheaper pellets.

Just my thoughts
 
T

Terry D

Guest
Like all good theories, they are just that - a theory. Until someone can conduct proper scientific research and come up with the plain hard facts, we will never know the real truth behind all the advertising hype and 'wise' words of the big-named/big-fish anglers. Maybe this is what we should be demanding - proper research.
 
Graham Whatmore

Graham Whatmore

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2003
Messages
9,147
Reaction score
9
Location
Lydney, in the Forest of Dean
I would have thought lake fish are more prone to being fattened up by anglers feed than river fish for two very obvious reasons.

One, lake fish are in effect captive fish and in some cases even rely on anglers keeping them fed. A good example of this is the now defunct 'silver lake' at moorlands farm where the owner had to feed the fish all winter because no one wanted to fish it and there was very little natural food available. I suspect this is more prevalent than just one particular venue. As for the argument that pellets are bad for fish you show me one article that supports this and there will be one that refutes it, one lake won't allow it another one will, it is unproven that pellets are bad for fish. Have you ever seen pictures R. Walkers carp, even that had a sizeable belly on it and that was pre boilie/pellet days, mebbe it was all those boiled tatties they threw in.

Two. River fish are not subjected to the same pressure as lakes, there are less anglers and consequently less unnatural food especially if you take out the maggot, casters and worms that a lot of river anglers use. All food thrown into a river will gradually progress downstream and will eventually be picked off by thousands of fish and not just a few and I personally have seen no sign whatsoever of overweight fish in any of the rivers I fish.
 
R

Rich P

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
142
Reaction score
2
Location
Manchester
With all due respect, Terry, surely common sense plays a part in helping us to make rational decisions? Not every theory needs to be researched to the nth degree to have credibility....

My slant on research is that it tends to throw up the results that were expected, in the majority of cases - therefore, not worth the time and effort. Just another doctorate in the making....

Sorry if that seems a little cynical
 
B

BAZ (Angel of the North)

Guest
I think that pellets are good for fish if the amount given can be properly monitered and controlled. I don't think that will ever happen though.
 
Peter Jacobs

Peter Jacobs

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 21, 2001
Messages
31,043
Reaction score
12,233
Location
In God's County: Wiltshire
Absent the relevent research the only possible answers can surely only be subjective.

My own view is that I don't use pellet at all. I did give them a try a season or two back after a very thought-provoking debate with Graham M., but to be honest I never did get to grips with pellet inasmuch as I think they really are just, "too" easy on many venues.

I must have said this a couple of dozen times on FM, but if I cannot catch decent fish on; maggot, hemp, caster, tares, bread, worm or the 'pink indispensible' then I'm not interested in catching them at all.

That is just my point of view but then I am no longer interested in pursuing big fish unnecessarily, (whether 'named' or unknown) and am more than happy to fish the styles that give me satisfaction on the more 'traditional' baits.

Pellets? Bah, humbug!!!!!!!!



(edited becasue I seemingly cannot either spell nor type this morning)
 
F

Frothey

Guest
Rich - if you look at the origional cornish pasties, with all the fat and carbo's in them, they were incredibly unhealthy and fattening - BUT people were doing hard manual labour at the time so burnt it all off. eating salads and "healthy" food probably would've been bad for them.
i know a guy who was on the england time-trialling team, and if you saw what he managed to eat in a day......


wasnt clarrisa spawned up graham? thats partly why it had lost so much weight in the zoo...(yates's record fish and near record common were spawned up as well)

they are probably using "naturals" Baz as they are cheaper and normally more effective if everyones fishing boilie/pellet. i bet if they werent catching and someone was hammering it on boilie/pellets they'd be straight back on them.
 
B

BAZ (Angel of the North)

Guest
Peter.
Anglers of our generation can be quite happy fishing the more traditional baits. I am myself.

The younger generation still want to catch a monster. Until they have, then I think the high protein baits and pellets will rule. This is what they are getting thrust in their faces every week. When they have caught their monster, then they too will be happy fishing with traditional baits.
 
F

Frothey

Guest
havent protein baits been used longer that corn? must be more traditional then..... ;)
 
B

BAZ (Angel of the North)

Guest
Depends on what you class as protein baits I suppose.
 
T

Terry D

Guest
I'm all for common sense Rich, and I never go anywhere with a plan to fish and feed pellets. I always take a mix of bait and see what the fish want. I try to avoid waters where they are out and out pellet venues etc. I much prefer the varied diet and trying to find out what the fish want or prefer. Either way, I think this can be a debate that will go on and on.
 
R

Rich P

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
142
Reaction score
2
Location
Manchester
Terry - I know this is gross digression but what was the average lifespan of a cornish tin miner (your previous point)?

As to your latter point - I have to agree - the debate will run and run.

Happy New Year all!

By the way - I'm a fan....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top