Why are many of our coarse fish

  • Thread starter Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA)
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA)

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I was talking to a friend the other day about the size of tench. In the 50s and 60s a 5 pound tench was considered to be the fish of a lifetime and 6 pounders were rarer than rocking horse dung.

Some very well known and skilful anglers fished all their lives and never caught a five.

It's the same thing with bream. A 4 pounder was a good fish then and a six, the fish of a lifetime.

Take barbel too. The record of 14lb 6 oz, held on three seperate rivers lasted 40 years.

I'll not mention carp as we all know what's happened.

But the other species of fish haven't changed. A 20 lb pike is still a whopper and 2 lb roach, other than on one or two waters, are very rare. Even more a 1 lb dace. And rudd are reaching the point of extinction on many waters where they were common.

So why have bream, barbel and tench and to an extent chub, have become so large, and the other species have stayed where they have always been?

Is it boilies, pellets, global warming, low populations of fish caused by cormorant predation - what?

And as a matter of interest, I haven't seen a cormorant in my area for many months.
 
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Spoddy Dave

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Its got to be the baits Ron,theres been a massive increase of different baits.
Although its strange some species seem to have stayed the same sizes.

No one i know uses maggots or worm anymore.
they always use some high protein bait.
 
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ED (The ORIGINAL and REAL one)

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But on some waters ,one cheshire mere I know and fished in particular, high protein baits weren't used and yet the tench sizes really went up ...

Could it be some of the chemicals that are used on the land leeching into the water that are causing it??
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA)

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And Redmire Pool produced carp up to over 50lbs long before carp anglers used high protein boilies.

In fact these days there are no big carp in Redmire any more.

Ed, artificial fertilisers could be one of the reasons.
 
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Frank "Chubber" Curtis

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Most really big tench and bream now come from gravel pits or reservoirs and these have, over the past few years been decimated by cormorants thus giving those fish that remain a lot more room and less competition for food.
On rivers most of the really big barbel and chub are coming from those that have been invaded by signal crayfish which are a highly nutritional food that has only been in existence (in British waters) for about 10 years. Couple this with lower fish density due to cormorant predation and I think you'll agree we have a couple of very good reasons.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA)

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Personally I feel one of the main reasons is climate change. How well I remember the winters of the 50s and 60s. Long periods where even rivers froze and the snow lay feet thick for weeks.

I have only known one really cold spell since I returned to this country in '94. This was 1996 when the River Leam froze from back to bank. That would be in the January.

Since then we have not had a winter at all.

I wonder what would happen in this country if we had another winter like 62/63?

There would be complete chaos I can tell you.

But when you see buzzers hatching in December......!!!
 
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Trisantona

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Ahh 62/63,what great memories,my mates dad was the manager of nottm ice stadium so our little gang went regularly for free,had our own skates and so were able to hit all the local lakes big time,we skated miles along Grantham canal,when we got to a lock we simply took to the road and skated along the pavement.....at the moment we have roses in full bloom in the back garden....
 
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BAZ (Angel of the North)

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I heard of a 3lb Grayling from a river that only usually produces them to 1.5 lb.
No photo or scales, I think it measured 2 ft. So it's a bit iffy.

What is the Greyling record?
 
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keora

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I think it's climate change plus high nutrition baits on some hard fished waters.

I used to fish a small tench water about 30 years ago. During nearly ten summers of fishing, the tench averaged about 2lb 8oz and it was rare to get anything over 3lb - my best ever was 3lb 14 oz.

After a break of 20 years I went there last year and the first tench I caught weighed 5lb 0oz, and I've subsequently had tench up 4lbs and a bit.

They've not grown bigger because of high nutrition baits - in fact less people fish the place because nowadays there's plenty of easy commercial waters nearby.

So I think that its the warmer summers.
 
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Sean Meeghan

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I think its a combination of factors, but the common thread is that all these fish are traditional "Summer" species. We are at the northern end of their range and until recently winter feeding opportunities were limited. As our climate has changed and our winters have got warmer and wetter then the active period has extended and the fish can grow for a greater prportion of the year.

The other contributory factors are:

Poor fry survival due to agro chemical pollution. This thins out competition for food.

More anglers fishing for them in winter. I think Barbel really benefit from this particularly since the boillie and pellet revolution.

Chub are a special case as the maximum weight hasn't gone up that much, but the average weight has shifted upwards. I think this is largely due to decreased competition due to poor fry survival and the chub's ability to exploit a wider range of food making it a more robust species.
 
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BAZ (Angel of the North)

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It also depends on the better stamp of fish species being introduced.
 
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Ric Elwin

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I don't think there's a simple answer to this.

The warmer climate is likely to be a factor, as is differing water quality, due to the use of chemicals in farming.

High protein baits? I doubt they are used in sufficient quantity in most waters...it's not just a few heavily fished waters that are producing larger specimens. They must be a factor on some waters though.

Then, the fortunes of different species are likely to be inter-linked. So the demise of the Roach due to Cormorant predation (and possibly other factors), leads to an almost equal demise in the Pike, as Roach are often their food of choice. The Perch disease of the last 30 years may well have led to the increase in size of Tench, as more food was left for them.

Techniques for the capture of specimen fish have improved. Tackle has improved, less fish are lost.

Many anglers are prepared to travel large distances to fish waters with the biggest specimens, probably more so than 30 years ago.

It can go on and on this...
 
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Merv Harrison

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I think Ron has it with climate change, looking out of the office window now, the sun's shining, it's relatively mild.

Fish will still be feeding as the 'natural' food chain is still available, also, fish won't be 'burning' off as much weight over winter with shorter 'cold' weather periods.

Ally that to high protein baits, quicker growth is an inevitability.
 
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Peter Bishop

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While I am sure climate change and other factors have made a contribution to an overall increase in the weights of fish, particularly in rivers, surely the capture of gargantuan pot belied carp from big lakes holding only 20-25 fish tells its own story?
Most of these waters are fished 24/7 on rotation by sydicate members who each spod half a hundred weight of high protein chopped boilies, trout pellets, hemp and maize onto gravel bars and other known feeding haunts.
At one day ticket lake I watched a guy deposit 20 loads to a bar 120 yards out via his bait boat!
Thus the 20 odd fish in such lakes have a running buffet to gorge on. Occasionally they make an error of judgement and hoover up a boilie that is connected to a trap.
While huge beds of feed will aid the process of packing on the pounds(it did for me)many of these vast waters also have prolific sources of bloodworm and natural aquatic plants as well.
While river fish weight increases are less easy to explain (Adams Mill being the exception) I feel you cannot ignore the obvious when it comes to Carp weights in stillwaters.
 
captain carrott

captain carrott

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the greedy rudd aren't eating all the food that he bream and tench want anymore because they're nearly extinct, so the tench and breamare getting bigger.
 
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will spencer

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ron,could it be possibly that the roach are getting bigger but not that many people are fishing deliberately for them?surley one of the greatest ways to catch roach is trotting with hemp and casters,or ledgering breadflake,however6or7pound chub and tench will muscle out a two pound roach every time.is this why more of the larger growing species are caught?have anglers in general become too preoccupied with blasting 20mm boilies to the horizon?this past season i have not picked up my carp outfit once,i've had too much fun catching roach and rudd on a light waggler.i did have a cracking session on the trent in october when all i caught were dace.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA)

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There have always been big roach, often in waters where they have not been caught.

The problem with catching big roach is avoiding small roach and other species of course.

It's strange but I caught a number of big roach, up to 1lbs 14oz on the River Leam whilst fishing for chub with strong tackle ie 8lb line 4 hook and large pieces of crust and flake. But no-one wants to catch roach on chub tackle.

And when I fished deliberately for roach, I invariably caught small ones below 8oz.

This is obviously telling me lots.

The next time I fish the Idle I am going to lay on with bread flake. In my past I caught many large Idle roach on stewed wheat, something I must try again.

Many canals contain big roach. To catch them you must fish to avoid the bits. Use bread flake, crust, wheat or tares and fish your bait right on the deck close to the edges of rushes. If you have a pole, fish under any trees on the far bank.
 
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will spencer

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hey ron different thread but along the lines-one of my favourite angling books is graham's advanced coarse fishing,have a quick glance at the roach chapter.old henry breadflake the size of a ten pence piece a size ten hook.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA)

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Don't worry Will, I have read that chapter and it's spot on.

When I was in my teens I used to fish a stretch of the Chesterfield canal near a place called Shireoaks. There was an old boy on there who used to catch lots of big roach. He only ever used bread paste and he only ever fished for a couple of hours into darkness. He used to fish well overdepth right in the edge with a 10 hook to 4 lbs line.

He used to laugh at the "pimpers" from Sheffield with their gossamer lines, tiny hooks, floats and single maggots.

He also caught lots of tench and chub which that canal had plenty.
 
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