The Humble Centrepin

Had a phone call from my old mate Ron Clay yesterday and one of the things we got on about was centrepins,Ron like me has had them since the fifties.
I told Ron in my opinion they have become nothing more than a fashion statement from the new breed of angler who says "Look at me dont i look good" Too many have been watching good old Mr Wilson on TV
Lets be honest the pin is only any good when the situation demands and if i use mine four times a year that about it. They are no good with an upstream wind diabolical with a skating wind or a wind in your face yet we still get them using them in these conditions getting in all sorts of tangles yet sayinf "I would never fish without my trusty pin"
Then we have the purist angler who always has the line coming off the bottom,why because tradition says so,what a load of rubbish im a realist not a traditonlist and have mine off the top.
The only reason people have line coming off the bottom is because some wag states its much better because the pin runs in a clockwise direction,bloody piffle.
On my local River Idle i have seen a major iflux of the pin in the last 3years or so and anglers getting into allsorts of problems and tangles.
I have fished this little river for over fifty years and below Bawtry it is not a centrepin river due to the fact it stops and starts all the time.
The centrepin is a reel for the use of a heavier float not a four number four and i reckon i can outscore someone using a pin by five fish to one with an open face reel.
Would you use a pin under the far bank fishing for chub in snaggy conditions,i would not because you cannot retreive fast enough,would you use one with the waggler once again no.
The best exponent of the pin ihave seen was Dave Thomas and Dave would only use if conditions suited. The pin is part of an anglers amoury and should be used as so,a Turner would not use a Knife tool for parting off would he or a parting tool for his final cut

"The only reason people have line coming off the bottom is because some wag states its much better because the pin runs in a clockwise direction"




Depends on which hand you hold it in, surely?

Having the line come off the bottom aids in Wallis casting or so I have read, can't do it myself so I wouldn't know.

Using a pin in windy conditions whilst stick float fishing poses no more problems than using a fixed spool reel in my experience, in fact it can be a benefit because it doesn't blow the coils off the spool, a closed face reel will eliminate this problem completely of course.

What you say is true John and whilst I like using the pin if I can, I wont let it hinder me if a more suitable reel will do the job better.That said most of my fishing is suited for pin fishing being largely on the Hants Avon where a pin is the perfect tool for trotting a nice crowquill Avon.However, if some anglers do like using the pin above all else then so be it.We all go fishing for the enjoyment after all and for some it is not solely about maximising the numbers of fish caught.

I know where you are coming from Nigel and agree to a certain extent,the Avon with its strong current is more suitable than most with BB ans AA shot more than likely.
A couple of years or so ago i went to fish a swim on the Swale which on the right day would give up to a 100lb of chub trotting.
Instead of using my Stradic 4000 and hitting and holding i used my pin and lost about ten chub out of the first dozen because i could not retreive fast enough to remove them from the snags,Swale chub have a honours degree in Geometry.I soon changed back to the Stradic.
Also how many anglers have more than one spool for a pin,not many unless you are very rich so it means spooling with strong line and a rig for the business end.
Graham
Sorry but its much easier with an open faced reel unless you are a complete idiot and have bought a reel where your finger cannot reach the spool

I find it easier with the line coming off the bottom, simply because I pat the spool to retrieve, when I haven't hooked a fish. That said I agree with the rest of your post John.

John, I know what you mean with Swale chub and the barbel are even worst.I fished a peg on the float at Cundall Farm where there was a willow just upstream of you.You would hook the barbel and they would swim in a leisurely fashion straight towards you before diving into the willow to your right.Every fish did the same.I only got the better of them when I bought some chest waders to fish it from mid stream.

Hooking chub at long range near the bank does demand a very quick retrieve otherwise they always seem to kite in to the bank.A long rod helps.

On the speed of retrieve point, Terry Lampard said he changed from the pin to a fixed spool to catch Stour chub because he calculated he would get as many as 100% more trots in a day.Given that he was fishing for the odd bite from a 7lber or so this was clearly an important factor.

"find it easier with the line coming off the bottom, simply because I pat the spool to retrieve, when I haven't hooked a fish."

you can still pat the reel with it coming off the top, and you have to learn to wind in the opposite direction. with the line coming off the bottom you can't use your fingertip to move the line across the spool and improve the line lay though.
which is why i have it coming off the top.

Chub diving into the near bank snags has cost me many a match Nigel and its not just a centrepin problem either. If a hard fighting chub is hooked well down the swim the more pressure you apply the more the tendency to kite into the near bank. It is an insoluble problem because you can't wade in a match and those crafty chub know exactly where the best snags are and you can rest assured they will find them in double quick time.

I have tried loading the pin with the line coming off both the top and the bottom and though there isn't a great deal of difference I feel more comfortable with it off the bottom, personal preference of course. I also use a fixed spool reel far more often than the c/pin it is more adaptable by far but now and again and knowing the water I am going to fish I enjoy using the pin. The Warks Avon is as perfect a pin water as you are liable to get.

One of the stretches of the Trent that I fish, the 'crease' is quite close in, so that it is possible to wade out in the water and fish of the rod end. I fish this swim mainly for chub and barbel with a chubber float carrying a number of AAA shot or the larger size wire stem floats. For this stretch the pin is ideal as it slows the float enough to combat the faster surface water and bring the bait up off the bottom, so that the angle of the line between the float and hook presents the bait ahead of the float instead of behind it, giving a better presentation then what you would get with a fixed spool.

On the Upper Witham the majority of the time the flow is not powerful enough to make the use of the centrepin worthwhile and the fixed spool or close face reel will give you better presentation and options. Similar with the Trent if you're fishing further out with the waggler or the stick.

It's a question of fishing the right tackle as the conditions dictate and whichever gives you the most pleasure.

Mind you, looking at the weather conditions today, I would'nt fancy fishing with either the centrepin or fixed spool.

Steve
You are so correct in your views especially regarding the Upper Witham which was one of my favourite rivers. At Hykeham it is much too slow for a pin unless carrying 18inches of extra.Move up the river to Claypole and its made for the pin in places
The Trent is a different ball game and ideal in places for the pin as the old Notts masters like Rolf and Toulson used to show us.
Nigel
Know what you mean regarding Swale chub and they certainly know how to wind you up,sometimes i have to look at the angle of the line from the rod tip and by the time you have done it you are snagged

As John says, there are times when using a 'pin is a dead loss.

Many years ago I used to fish a 'pin with the line coming off the top. But for Wallis casting it's no good. These days I fish with the line coming off the bottom with a line guard. Most of my casting is Nottingham style which means pulling up to three loops off the reel and casting that way.

The secret of a good accurate Nottingham cast is not to use too much force and to do it smoothly.

Ron
Why do you need to Wallis cast as i can reach the same distance with the line coming off the top just by thumbing the reel,its all snobbery to me much like that idiot Chris Yates who dresses like Sherlock Holmes uses that silly wooden pin trots like an arseole and if he wanted to look traditional in Passion for Angling i would have paid him traditional money about 1 shilling and sixpence a show.

I'd have to agree with Nigel about a centrpin reel being used more on rivers such as the Hampshire Avon. In fact about 80% of my fishing time on my local rivers is done on the 'pin, unless conditions really are against its use.

As for the Wallis cast, surely it is just another 'tool' in an angler's armoury, and it is nigh on impossible to Wallis cast with the line coming off of the top of the reel.

Mind you, in windy conditions then I change over to a 'pin with the line off of the top as it is much easier to control.

But for a match type situation I will always opt for an Abu 506 as its much quicker and easier in use. noting nigels point about sped with a fixed spool reel over a 'pin then you have to agree. However, a closed face reel is even quicker as you don't have to 'play' with bail arms either.

i do see what you mean john about a fashion statement as i do see people insisting on buying youngs purists or bj light's because of the "name factor" or kudo's of having a "" better reel "" pedestal factor that because its more expencive it must be better or that youngs make the very best so thats what they must have.yes john wilson has through his shows brought them out of the closet so to speak but its not all bad as it has help break the exclusivity mist that seemed to have engulfed centrepins (mianly in the south of the country) where they where deemed that only the privalidged or eccentric could have & use them.when in fact the centrepin (or at least in the east midlands) has always been a workingmans reel (often made at work in engineering works or made from wood) but one thing john wilson did show was that there was no mystery to using one or casting one as he very rarely cast further than one to two rod lengths out.ok so sometimes he'd where a silly hat whilst fishing but we've all done that ain't we !,one thing that those shows did do is to make anglers curious about centrepins and perhaps using one just to see if they like them.but was untill recently thought them too expensive (always looking towards the top end of the market at production models which have been and some still are over priced in order to keep that exclusivity air about them) when there was some very nice reels that worked perfectly well for the job.there as in the last couple of years seen a marked influx of anglers taking up using centrepins mainly do to the more reasonably priced reels like the okumas ect but it will be more of measure as to how many stick with it.there has always been those who see certain reels as works of art & using them as a privilege and to be admired but used.i can understand this as its taking pride in using a well engineered piece of equipment (oops showing my working class background again seeing reels as equipment/tools) rather than investments or kept locked away as musium piece's in private collections.you see i myself see centrepins as tools for the job that have to be up to the task and capable of being used & abused by Me.and it doesn't have to be the most expensive or stylish of reel,but i can appriciate a precition piece of equipment or a reel and desire owning and using one mainly for the experiance and my own pleasure.i'm not easerly impressed by reels as once you've seen one aerial reel you've pretty much seen them all (barring one or two exceptions) and its the same with stanton type reels whether its a adcock stanton or a leeds reel or a "rolls royce" stanton or even a origanal (johnson) stanton first made at stanton iron works (at ilkeston)from where they took their name from.they're all pretty much the same.its snobbery with centrepins i have no time for.like when people state that youngs purists are Superior to okuma aventa's but apart from a few asthetic's they're both bearings reels of simular size ect and quallity of bearings which give good performane on a par with each other and the only technical advantage a purist has over a aventa is the drag sytem which isn't really a necessity and only adds to the small weight difference between the two.the biggest difference is price as they're both production models mass produced parts & assemballed in a factory.

Quality post Chav as always and you talk a lot of sense my friend

As for line comming of the bottom or top of the reel thats goes back to east midlands traditions between sheffield & nottingham styles of fishing and casting was part of each style,sheffield (south yorkshire/north notts/derbys) tended to fish lighter refined tackle cast of the rod (loop stype casts) and notts (notts derby/leicester)style of using heavier tackle and casting of the spool (side cast & spinning side type casts ){i've done a bit of research} and although you can do both loop casts and side type cast with the line off the bottom and having the line exit at the top of the spool limmits what casts you can make its no less a valid way,infact anglers would swap between the two during a session depending on the swims they where fishing simply by taking a reel off the rod and reversing the way it faced the line would then switch from top to bottom or visa versa it just ment you had to batt the drum to retrieve line and as such the reels orintation didn't matter just the direction of your batting strokes changed or you swaped over arms & hands to wind in.and as the two styles merged over time some confussion asto what is or isnt a sheffield or nottingham cast was has come about and some people call a loop cast "the nottingham cast" when its should be known as a "sheffield" style cast,this is do to many reasons from loss of men from the first & 2nd world wars (losing their knoledge) and the rise of the threadline reels (open faced) popularity and the decline in the use of centrepin due to its inherant limitation of only being effective over short distances and prone to weather conditions unlike the superior capabilities of openfaced reels.

Whoa!!!

Chavender please!!

You have written some good points but could you please re-write your posts with paragraphs and punctuation.

I have just got a terrible migraine trying to read it - seriously.

(sorry for droning on & on) i was curious as to why i saw a angler in a old video footage swap arms to reel in & have his reel face the wrong way around and looked into it and found out a great deal of intresting things mainly by getting hold of some old books on fishing and talking to some guys,i think that centrepins are good at certain things like close in work & trotting but only in the right conditions
which is why i always carry my closed faced reels when out float fishing just in case sometimes i'll use a open faced as well,i'm a little unfortunate that the first propper reel i had was a centrepin by default (i wanted a open faced reel)and was shown how to cast with them as a kid but as i came from near nottingham i've traditonally fished with the line off the bottom.but can fish with it off the top if needed but find it awkward.but like so many i eventually got a openfaced reel and didn't use a centrepin again for over twenty years and lost my origanal G & Y centrepin reel (actually i found it last year in a box of crap a case of out of site out of mind)and didn't use another pin untill i swapped a shimano 5010 baitrunner for a old rolls royce stanton type reel which eventually made way for a aventa pro (lighter & smoother)but not as versatile so i now have three centrepins
a trudex for light work/small rivers ect,the aventa for trotting on the trent and a old k.p.dowling reel for close in barbel/carp fishing in suitable waters.so i see centrepins as horses for coarses and not jack of all trades.& not exclusive just another tool to do the job with.

funnerly enough ron i'm off to adult litracy classes on friday so hopefully i'll get better grammer out of it,aswell as a basic quallification.well if you don't immprove you stand still.