Muhammad Ali 65th Birthday

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goody

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Muhammad Ali / Cassius Marcellus Clay for me the greatest boxer of all time and a true icon for the sport of boxing.

In to-days overblown overweight and crap hevyweight boxing scene Mahammed Ali would have beat most of them without even breaking into a sweat.

Incidentally with some of to-days yobs, a couple of rounds in the ring might do them some good.
 
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goody

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Sorry, will get it under bait box next time.

goody
 
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BAZ (Angel of the North)

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Sory mate.
He should have been decked in his early years.
To me there was always something suspicious about the way he won his fights. How many of his supposed knockouts were decided on technicalities?
I remember getting up in the early hours of the morning to watch the Sonny Liston fight in the early 60's. When Ali stepped into the ring he looked absolutely terrified. To me that fight was rigged from start to finnish. And the biggest dissapointment in boxing.

Rightly so he was called the Louiseville Lip.
Then came John Macinroe (tennis) and Alex Higgins (snooker) both pulling the same old showmanship stunts.
He certainly set the presedence okay. But as a true world champion? Never in a million years.
 
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BAZ (Angel of the North)

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Going from memory and not what I read in the papers. The ringside comentators were up in arms about the Ali/Liston decision, as were the spectators and the rest of the boxing world. Anybody who watched that fight and knows anything about it would know the reasons why.

All hell broke loose the next day in the press, this was the saddest day in the history of boxing. The rest is history.

I only wish I still had some of the newspaper cuttings to show you what people thought of Ali at that time.
 
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Bully

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Baz brings up some good points. However Baz the Liston decision was more sullied by the Mafias involvement with Liston and betting scams......and most spectators I am led to believe of of that ilk. So in this instance he stood tall and won fair and square.

Where he was at fault was with our 'enery, where his team saved him, and the Rumble in the Jungle, where his team slackened off the ropes so he could lean back and mitigate punches.

Having said that most of his big fights were awesome and beyond reproach, and he, more than any other boxer was willing to get into the the ring and box with anyone. The technicality decisions were few Baz.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA)

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I remember that fight like it was yesterday. Having the same name is what did it. Everyone started calling me Marcellus..... :eek:)

It was extremely controversial and Clay (as he was called then) was accused of using a karate punch to floor Liston -"That Big Ugly Bear"!

I never respected Clay because he got out of the draft due to pretending he was a moslem and a conciencious objector.

However he severely punished another boxer in the ring over several rounds. The fight should have been stopped as Clay inflicted absolute torture on this man.
 
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BAZ (Angel of the North)

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more than any other boxer he was willing to get into the the ring and box with anyone.

Yeah, like Joe Bugner. (o

Seriously.
I never really followed him after the Liston fight mate, My opinion is that he should never have gone any further after the Liston fight. Or as you mentioned, with our Enry or the rumble in the jungle.
There were too many people protecting his and their own interests.
 
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BAZ (Angel of the North)

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Mohammed Ron the Yorkshire Ripper. (o

I remember Ali smearing honey along the sidewalks in the States. When asked what he was doing , he replied I am setting a trap for a Bear.
 
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master BAITS

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I have been a boxing coach for quite a few years and understand the inside out of boxing , winning ABA titles at junior and senior levels also earning my ROSE (boxing for England)

I have seen THE fight at least 20 times and each time i see it (the full un edited version) Cooper/Ali the more I see the biggest fix I have personally witnessed or seen in boxing history

The man was truly something else and I wish boxing had charachters like him today.

My greats are Marvin Hagler, Thomas (the hitman) Hearns & and of course Sugar Ray Leonard.

Those three provided the boxing world with exhileration when they thought each other time and again.

ALI, was he the greatest???


Personaly I think NOT
 
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BAZ (Angel of the North)

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Exactly mate, and that is why I would allways deny him the title of the Greatest. Incidentally, I am the Greatest was a title that he gave to himself, he never actually won it.
 
Neil Maidment

Neil Maidment

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The majority of opinion at the time seemed to agree that Clay just fought Liston to a standstill in 1964. Most seemed to think Liston just did not train properly for the fight, assuming he could just "walk through" the newcomer.

Mafia (or gangland) involvement throws all sorts of doubts into the rematch but again informed opinion suggests it was not fixed.

Ali took some incredible hits in the "rope a dope" fight with Foreman, slack ropes or not! To come out after 8? rounds of that and produce such a display was just awe inspiring.

Clay/Ali, for me, there will never be anyone like him again.
 
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master BAITS

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"I am the Greatest was a title that he gave to himself, he never actually won it"

SPOT ON
 
Neil Maidment

Neil Maidment

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"How many of his supposed knockouts were decided on technicalities?"

Only one I think, Baz. Might be wrong, but that one was the first Liston fight in 1964 when Liston refused to come out after 7 or 8 rounds "giving" the title to Clay.
 
Neil Maidment

Neil Maidment

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Master Baits, how heavy are modern heavyweights?

I think in his prime, Ali fought at around 220lbs to 230lbs. I think that's "small" compared to today's fighters.
 
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goody

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As I remember it, whem Ali was in his prime years as a boxer he was banned fom boxing for 4 years because he refused to join the army during the draft.

But prior to that and for the about 4 years after his comeback no Boxer before or since had his speed of punch, movement around the ring and sheer athleticism plus sadly the ability to take a punch.

Fortunatly his chosen sport was boxing, for his atleticism alone he would have been good in any sport. In the hall of boxing fame he is at the top no doubt about it even Henry Cooper admits to that.
 
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master BAITS

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I have had the privalage of meeting or associating with cooper at various dinners and boxing shows, money makes you say what the producers want you to....

I have nearly all of ali/clays fights on film and have not seen in one... his ability to take a "clean" punch but those that have caught him have seriously rocked him, the problem was catching him in the first place but he still does not rate as my "GREATEST"

What makes him the greatest, what makes anyone "the greatest" of all time

damn im going to bed i got work in the morning night all :)
 
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BAZ (Angel of the North)

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Neil has an excelent memory for dates n weights. Who needs google?
M.B. speaks from expierience. The Ali shuffle? don't make me laugh.
 
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