Sponsorship? Is it worth it?

I was asked to start this thread by a FM member who is known to most of us, but who shall stay nameless.

I have been sponsored by two tackle manufacturers in my life, the first one being the Sheffield based company: Sportex, in the 60s. I received a variety of tackle items from them, including various cash amounts to cover expenses.

The second time was by the distributor of a famous UK based range of fly fishing tackle, especially fly lines, which shall be nameless.

I did OK out of Sportex as fortunately most of their tackle was pretty fair in terms of quality. However the other company was in the early stages of development and their fly lines particularly were absolute junk. And yet I was forced to fish with them and to recommend them to the beginners I was teaching to cast. Having to do so cost me a lot of fish, and I daresay some respect!

**** Walker once told Pete Stone that he never took any money from anyone in the tackle trade, and because of that he could say or write anything he wanted about any make or type of tackle. He said if an item of tackle was given to him for test, he never asked a fee, but would take the item of tackle if it was any good.

One thing I have noticed in some magazines is that mention is made of a contributors sponsor as if it was the norm for every contributor to have a sponsor. In other words, the editor might be of the opinion that if you don't have a sponsor, you may not be good enough to write a decent article, or to pass on some of your experience. Personlly I feel that there is too much sponsorship floating around and if the writer recommends an item of tackle, he is biased anyway.

So I tend to want to read articles by unsponsored anglers these days.

What about you?

"Sponsored anglers" do have a tendency to change sponsors. As far as I'm concerned I'm more interested in how they fish rather than what they fish with.

When all's said and done, each bit of tackle does a job and it either does it well or it doesn't. I can't think that any semi-pro or pro angler is going to stick to using a reel (for example) that jams halfway through playing a fish. Or a line that breaks at half the stated breaking strain.

Product placement seems to me to be a natural part of any angler looking to make a living from the industry. You might as well rule your shopping decisions based on whether you like/dislike the actor/celebrity doing the voice-over on any TV ad.

It's just a living.

Much of the time, I suspect, most of the perceived "sponsored" anglers are only in receipt of the goods themselves, they're not being paid in hard cash, too, so why shouldn't they have tackle and bait to try and test?
How else are we, the Great Unwashed, going to get an inkling of what's on offer?
I'm sure most products are rigorously tested for a decent amount of time in all conditions to see how well they do.
The companies know that a good product will receive a positive endorsement which is good for the rest of us, too. If it's really no good, it'll usually get found out and dropped.

There's always the faint chance of something turning up that might give you an "edge", or make an angling "chore" easier and I'm all for that.

Having seen sponsorship at close hand in another sport, I have no wish to be involved with it. I can understand the appeal of free stuff and financial support but it is a double edged sword. Being restricted in what you can use, be seen to be using or admit to using isn't much fun. Actually having to be a little less than totally truthful takes it a bridge too far. Thankfully, it's easy to resist the temptation when you wouldn't stand a chance of ever getting sponsored in the first place!

When it comes to sponsored anglers in the press, I'm pretty indifferent. I'm afraid that cynicism stopped any regular purchase of any angling publication a long time ago. Once upon a long ago, sponsorship was visible without being too obvious. Nowadays almost every article seems to be an exercise in product placement. If it isn't then they are using gallons of whatever bait they get for free or at vastly reduced prices.

I throw a fair amount of money at my fishing, probably a bit more than Joe Average, but I see most articles describing fishing that's out of my league. In most cases it's fantasy fishing. Stuff that means a very special trip. If that's how I, as a single bloke with a higher than average earnings, sees it, Lord knows how a family man with average, or less, earnings sees it.

The other side of the coin is who in their right mind would want to read about Joe Average's fishing exploits? Decidedly average results punctuated by (hopefully) the odd red letter day.

What I really would like to see is big name anglers fishing with average kit, on average waters, for average lengths of time using average amounts of bait. I'd love to see the results. I'd love to fish alongside them on waters accessible to me and see just how average I am.

sam vimes said:

What I really would like to see is big name anglers fishing with average kit, on average waters, for average lengths of time using average amounts of bait. I'd love to see the results. I'd love to fish alongside them on waters accessible to me and see just how average I am.

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Scenario 1. The swims are pre-baited (by himself, or others) to the point where "Big Name" should catch on the day.

Scenario 2. The finished article we read as a One Day Event, actually took two or three days because it was a hard water.

Scenario 3. "Hot" swims are targetted pretty much guaranteeing success.

Scenario 4. "Big Name" puts in a great deal of thought and effort on the day and makes that swim produce the target fish. He's not a "Big Name" for nothing!

And, of course, occasionally they fail, just like us, and admit it in print. I've seen that, too.

I've been there on Scenarios 2, 3, and 4.
Number 1 is an educated guess.

Interesting topic Ron!

I tend to agree with Sam (above). It would be nice to see these guys fishing on average waters with an average amount of bait fully paid for just like joe public has to use. I remember once, one angler recommending, in the same mag I wrote for, how to fish cheaply and when he described his bait requirements it still cots around £25 to fish one match. That's not extraordinary except that he freely admitted he didn't pay full price and his £25 was in realilty about £45 to the other anglers.

To counter it, I wrote another article on how to fish cheaply and spent £6 on bait that saw three separate fishing trips and not just for myself, but a young lad I used to take also. We did alright too with some bumper catches for the venues and he almost got third place in a club match. Most of the bait was home made from scraps or self-dug worms etc.

It gets me also when angler are trying to get sponsored by the 'best' bait manufacturers, but in the meantime will take bait from the also-rans. When and if they do get to the tops they say how really great these baits are implying that the companies they were sponsored by before weren't really as good as they were letting on at that time.

There was also another manufacturer who told of anglers sponsored by top names trying to get product off him because his were better that the company's products who sponsored him and yet they'll write and tell of how good those products are - the sponsored one, not the ones he really prefers to use. It all a bit of a sham.

One other point, I nearly did a deal once to get into tackle distribution myself and just talking about it over a pint with some match mates, they said "Would you want to sponsor a team?" The only thing I could say was "What? Sponsor you scruffy beggers?" Reason being most of them turned out on a sunday match like they'd been dragged across a field, all filthy and tackle not washed or cleaned from previous matches. They said they didn't have time and it didn't improve their catches, which was more important.

Just imagine what sponsorship the F1 teams would get if they didn't wash and polish their cars after every time they used them and the drivers turned up in scruffy grease stained overalls. Not much eh?

Ron The Hat Clay said:

Personlly I feel that there is too much sponsorship floating around and if the writer recommends an item of tackle, he is biased anyway.

So I tend to want to read articles by unsponsored anglers these days.

What about you?

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Completely agree with these sentiments, however we (anglers) get what we deserve, inasmuch as we buy the magazines that propagate such twaddle. Ask yourself this, when Mr Celeb Angler waxes lyrical about the latest widget produced by his sponsor, then a few months later he has changed sponsor and now claims that his new employer has the best supercharged widgets, do you buy it? The story or the product?

Probably not for this forum, but is this not simply a small example of what has become a real social issue where so many people are fixated on 'celebrities' to such a level that it could be considered seriously unhealthy.

Check out a magazine stand and count the endless publications headlining the love life of Cole, Jordan, Andre, Katona blah blah blah. Those magazines are doing good business because there are huge numbers of people who feed on and relish such bilge !

I am often called a cynical old codger, thats because I am !!

sam vimes said:

The other side of the coin is who in their right mind would want to read about Joe Average's fishing exploits? Decidedly average results punctuated by (hopefully) the odd red letter day.

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Strangely enough a lot of people do.

There are many anglers of modest means who will never get the chance for a day on the Hampshire Avon for example, or a day fly fishing on the Test where the ticket may cost hundreds of pounds. But they certainly would read of the exploits of a person, who may not be the greatest angler in the world, but he may be a truly excellent writer or artist, or both, fishing waters that are quite within the means of most people.

I can name quite a few of this ilk.

Ron, some articles only appear because the "sponsor" has created an article around his product,in some cases they may have even provided the articles words for the "author" !

---------- Post added at 21:31 ---------- Previous post was at 21:22 ----------

In fact I know of one company who expected advertorial space without payment, so that a certain well known author could write an article about their products.

Ron The Hat Clay said:

Strangely enough a lot of people do.

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Best that someone tells the Angling press that then.
Have to say, I'm not that interested in reading of average exploits unless the writer is an exceptional story teller. I know a self confessed average angler that has written a book. It just happens to be my favourite angling book ever. He can spin a yarn and writes damned well.

I see better writing, of fishing yarns, on forums than I've seen in the angling press . I don't see much danger of such story telling anglers getting much space in the modern angling press.

What I should point out is that there are sponsorships, and there are consultancies.

In terms of the Sportex issue, I was used most of the time as a consultant. It wasn't my full time job of course. At the time I worked as a draughtsman with a firm of consulting engineers in the middle of Sheffield. Two streets from there was Sportex where I became quite friendly with Tag Barnes the sales manager (he was in my specimen group), and David Chetwode the owner of the business. The rod blanks used were glassfibre and made in Germany. Tag and myself had the free run of the tiny manufacturing facility. We put together many rods, including The Sportex Hornsea pike rod, the Tag Barnes Carp Rod and a rod I worked out for general chub and barbel fishing on the Yorkshire rivers.

I also seem to remember working out a 12 foot roach rod which sold quite well; it had ferrule-less glass to glass joints which were something of a breakthrough at the time.

I certainly remember taking a Hornsea rod in an attempt to get a 20 lb pike caught on it. I caught 20 pound pike of cause, but not on the Hornsea. Ray Webb who was also given a Hornsea, beat me to it.

Steve Crawshaw and myslf took my "Avon" design to Ireland where we caught lots and lots of tench and bream with these rods. I took 6 tench which weighed 35 lbs one morning ca 1965. Quite a unique catch I can tell you. Not one of those tench would pull 6 lbs! Photos of these catches were plastered all over Angling Times and Anglers Mail in adverts.

Heady days indeed.

---------- Post added at 13:48 ---------- Previous post was at 13:45 ----------

sam vimes said:

I see better writing, of fishing yarns, on forums than I've seen in the angling press . I don't see much danger of such story telling anglers getting much space in the modern angling press

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Have you ever read "Waterlog" Sam?

And "Coarse Angling Today" or "Angling Star", both carry articles which are non-sponsored deals, as also do "Carp World" and "Advanced Carp Angling".

"Coarse Angling Today", editored by one of the finest coarse angling journalists and writers of our time - Kevin Clifford, is full of excellent articles by a whole variety of angling authors.

Ron The Hat Clay said:

Have you ever read "Waterlog" Sam?

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Ron,
Not that I'm aware, is it a publication or feature within a publication?. As I intimated earlier, I'm not a buyer of magazines these days. I'll browse if presented with one somehow. I may even buy if I'm on a long haul flight.

sam vimes said:

unless the writer is an exceptional story teller.

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And that is a very rare gift in this day and age.

If you get the opportunity, have a read of Maurice Pledger's book "While My Float's Still Cocked". There's nothing really incredible in it as regards catches, although afew I wouldn't have minded having, but it is so enthralling and entertaining. He has a gift and he is an illustrator.

In the 1970s or 1980s I used to be influenced heavily by what the great match anglers used. You know, the likes of Ivan Marks, Ian Heaps, Clive Smith, Kevin Ashurst, Ken Giles, Tom Pickering, John Dean etc etc whose columns you could read in the angling papers for tips. More local to my area of fishing at the time were examples like Ray Mumford, Ken Collings, Steve Gardner and others who actually fished places in the south which i knew, like the Thames. The fact that any of these anglers were the best of their time was shown by the way they could win matches or do well in their sections etc, week in week out. Even within the clubs i fished it didnt take long to work out or plainly see who the best anglers were - so far as winning club matches was concerned. As with the "pros" this was mostly down to their skills, but perhaps using the latest rod or reel, hook patterns or rig also made the difference - which would be tried by yours truly where possible.

Somehow i always regarded specimen hunting a little differently. For this, it is access to waters that hold specimen fish and the time and dedication to do so on an extended basis that is everything. As i didnt get to fish the Tring reservoirs, the Hants Avon or "undisclosed Berkshire pit" too often i i didnt pursue that type of fishing or the particular tackle or revolutionary rigs involved as much as i did with club match angling. When i did pleasure fish for better quality fish (usually tench, bream or roach) I mostly used scaled-down approaches, influenced as much by the writings of BB, Richard Walker, Peter Stone and others as much as the newly emerging breed of specimen hunting stars emerging at that time.

I am still sceptical about brands and the like. Roger Federer would have been the greatest tennis player whether or not he used Wilson, Babolat, Head or any other modern tennis racquet. He would have struggled with an wooden racquet though. I suspect the same would apply with top match anglers or specialist anglers today. Once you get to a certain level in the equipment the tiny advantages of one brand or another (which probably varies under particular conditions) is irrelevant. Where forums like this are so helpful is where value for money, durability and the like is discussed based on experiences of owning brand X or Y. I would be swayed far more by that than seeing the current "big names in angling" (most of whom i would not recognise as i rarely read the angling press) using a particular product - particularly if it is specimen hunting (or should i say specialist angling).

Jeeps - in the time i wrote that badly there were about seven posts !

chub_on_the_block said:

BB, Richard Walker, Peter Stone and others as much as the newly emerging breed of specimen hunting stars emerging at that time.

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Chub,

What you must read is **** Walker's preface to I think it was the 4th edition of "Stillwater Angling". In it Walker takes apart what was starting to happen within the specimen fish world. Of the anglers who were dis-satisfied with catching fish that they should have been proud of. I get the impression that the fish you are catching now you should be proud of. They are probably fit strong fish in the prime of their lives without a mark on them.

I am chuffed indeed to catch a 4lb chub in the prime of its life, an 8 pound barbel that fights well or a 1 pound roach that shines like a new pin. Make no mistake there is often something sad about some 6 pound chub.

Not all I must admit.

Ron - i will. I may have already - its been ages with some of these books as i used to borrow from a library, and own few.

Prime well conditioned fish..1ib roach..that would do nicely.

I have one sponsor.......myself!
I use what I need from whoever I need it from and it fits my stringent criteria.
If fails that test or isn't on the market, I make it myself and sometimes the idea is nick by a manufacturer.
But hey ho that's life!

So is it worth it? Probably not!

The bad one said:

I have one sponsor.......myself!
I use what I need from whoever I need it from and it fits my stringent criteria.
If fails that test or isn't on the market, I make it myself and sometimes the idea is nick by a manufacturer.
But hey ho that's life!

So is it worth it? Probably not!

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So isn't it time you started writing a few articles on how you fish?

I am sure a couple of the magazines I have mentioned would be interested.

Having been a sponsored angler, both individual and team member all through the 90's I would say that the sponsorship was well worth the effort.

We were obliged to use the Company groundbiats exclusively (which was great considering I reckon them to be the best on the market anyway)
We were also obliged to use as many other products from their catalogue as we found right for us, no other 'pressure' was exerted, and we had to wear the sponsored clothing to all matches either as an individual or team member.

We were fortunate to have been invited to trips around their manufacturing centre in France and to fish for them in half a dozen matches in out time there.

All in all we very much enjoyed our time being sponsored, and to this day I still use mostly their groundbaits and a lot of their other products too.

---------- Post added at 05:42 ---------- Previous post was at 05:38 ----------

sam vimes said:

Not that I'm aware, is it a publication or feature within a publication?.

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No Sam, Waterlog used to be a subscription only magazine: Waterlog Magazine

These days you can purchase the current issue' online though.

You will rarely ever find any articles in there that continually mention Company products, the writing is (IMHO) far better than that available elsewhere. It is published quarterly.

Sponsorship

What is it ?

Only in a Sport that still thinks of itself as an Amature Sport would you have a thread like this.

Is there any sport that does not attract Sponsership these days ?

I think not !!

So; some reader seem to get upset about product placement, why is that, it happens in every other sport.

If you are going to try and earn a living from the Public face of Angling, you would need to look down every avenue, including product placement to make a half decent living.

If the product raplacement is to " In Your Face ", it might put you off reading an article, but to be honest I take with a pinch of salt and ingore the adverts within an article, because if it's a decent article, I might just learn something.

If a well known Carp Anglers is sponsered by a company or bait supplier, I expect to see some reference to their sponsers products in articles writen by the Carp Angler.

I just see it as Angling becoming less Amaturist and more a professional sport at the highest level.

Bob

What a cracking read this is! If I may put my twopenneth in? I am 'supported' by a (I think it fair to say) lesser known brand of bait and terminal tackle in that I'm lucky enough to get what I need without payment. In exchange, I'm asked to promote the brand where I get chance, both on the bank, online and in hard copy should the opportunity arise; I have no problem with that, I use the baits ALMOST exclusively and am a firm believer that the terminal range suits MY fishing, therefore I do not 'ram it down the neck of others'....I do get paid for the majority of articles I submit, so that may change the perception for others?

I also write for a number of review based websites who are kind enough to allow me to keep items I review; I'm not paid by the company but by the website for the content, but the products keep my costs down. I've been lucky enough to make a few contacts with other companies who have also sent products through to me....

I have been fortunate enough to spend time with anglers such as IYCF Editor Kev Green and we discussed the 'sponsored' angler at some length; as previously stated in other excellent posts within this thread, many of the 'names' may have exclusive access to hot pegs which have been prebaited for a number of days, even weeks before their arrival to 'guarantee' a good catch report. However, this is often not enough and a couple of sessions may be necessary to ensure a decent article or feature. I have been told that a 60% success rate for a first time feature is good going, and, having witnessed an attempted article on the bank at a commercial during which nothing was caught despite preparation, I'm not surprised!

'Adspend' within the magazines can prioritise articles; if a manufacturer spends a lot of money advertising the product within a given magazine, then it isn't unreasonable for them to expect the editor to run a piece featuring that product. Advertising spend is often the lifeblood of a publication and HAS to be maintained.

I have been with my 'brand' since December last year and have been in the position to turn down a 'better' company (which at the time I thought I was mad to do!) but it has worked out far better for me personally; I have a close relationship with the MD, I don't have to provide exclusive content, nor do I have a set quota of captures to make. I have the chance to get to trade and other shows, exposure in national and local press and fish venues not usually accessible to me. In all it works for me and I know I'm exceptionally fortunate to be assisted.

I have previously reviewed for a number of other manufacturers; a difficult position to be in if the product is poor quality and the company expect a positive return. Luckily, I'm freelance too, so can either review the product if it warrants it, or return it with appropriate feedback if I feel a negative review would not be beneficial in the public arena. This has led to a few 'discussions' with suppliers who feel that as it's been provided it should be a positive contribution from me; pressure is applied, and it can be awkward to resist. (Sadly)

I'm no expert angler (as those who know me would agree) but like to think I can tell a story or demonstrate a product and I think that's the ONLY reason I find myself where I am now. I like to listen to others and learn from them as they ALWAYS know more than I, and I've found that very useful.

What does annoy me (as an angler and a freelance too) is the fact that allegedly top anglers eschew the merits of a particular bait or product within an article knowing full well that they haven't used it! I think it's underhand, but can appreciate in the competitive nature of the sales and media world why it gets done.

'Sponsorship' is a widely used term for a number of situations; from full time exclusive anglers/writers to those who pick up a few bits for free, I don't make a living from my writing (I wish!) and have a full time job which takes priority. I do get numerous enquiries (mainly from young anglers with an ego if I'm truthful) about getting paid to go fishing....as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't work like that, but it can be a way to lighten the financial load. I respect those who are knowledgeable enough to make it a full time position, but I'm happy with my lot at the moment and can't see why it should change...

I would encourage anglers to try and get some form of help, but would also warn that they should be prepared to dig in and give some return; I know of several anglers who field test paying reduced rates, and consider that a quick picture on Facebook means that they are 'sponsored' and they can tell their mates such. I've been writing for three years now, I written thousands of words and taken hundreds of photographs to try and make it a success, but it can be a tough game; that's not to say you shouldn't have a go!

I've just read through this and can't see that it's relevant in any way to the original post, but just a few of my thoughts....sorry!