What is the most intelligent fish?

chub_on_the_block · Oct 10, 2011

I read recently that a scientist discovered "level 5" awareness equivalent to squirrels or small mammals in a south american fish. The species was capable of solving puzzles, predicting events, evaluating risk and reward situations and posting on forums. Well actually i made all that up...but what is the most intelligent fish - is it just a case of older means wiser?

Tim Ridge · Oct 11, 2011

I don't know if it can be put down to intelegence or just instinct but chub certainly seem to act as a 'collective' to avoid getting caught. I've watched them perform in a manner that I can only assume has to purpose of detecting if line is present in the swim and similarly the smaller members of the shoal often seem to perform a 'ritual' that would seem to have the purpose of detecting if any food item is 'tethered'. This might easily be put down to some form of inteligence or it could just be a natural behavioural trait. Either way it is flaming infuriating.

Tench, Bream and carp seem to learn to avoid any close contact with visual rig components. Again this might be considered a form of inteligence though personally (again) I'm not sure that this isn't just an instinctive reaction.

I suppose it depends on how you define intelligence.

dezza · Oct 11, 2011

In the UK, I put chub and roach as the most intelligent fish.

Overseas, I have found the grasscarp to be very difficult on occasions.

Peter Jacobs · Oct 11, 2011

I have never been one to attribute fish with anthropomorphic behaviour, 'intelligence' being one of them.

Fish are not 'intelligent' they simply have instincts that they blindly follow.

On that criteria then I'd say that large Roach (over 1½ lbs) are the most difficult to catch on a sustained basis, also large Chub over 5lbs on most rivers can be as difficult a target.

Bob Hornegold · Oct 11, 2011

I certainly think some fish learn by their mistakes !!

I'm sure those of us who have been around Carp fishing for a number of years can think of carp that rarely if ever get caught on carp baits as they get older.

How many times do you hear that so and so carp has died or has been moved at some well known waters, only to find that the carp in question is still in the said water, it's just wised up to anglers baits and methods.

And of course it's not just Carp, many older fish that have seen the Bank when younger, can wise up.

Big Chub, Bream and Roach all seem to become extremely difficult on at times on pressurised venues.

Good angling skills or tricky rigs often fail to capture these clued up fish, I don't know if you can call it inteligence or just a heightened survival instinct, but there are certainly some very tricky fish that hardly ever get caught.

Bob

Alan Tyler · Oct 11, 2011

Conversely, there are the insultingly-termed "mug" fish, who (may) have learned that getting caught is no big deal, so get an edge over their mates by scoffing everything, and using time spent in a keepnet for a bit of pike-free digesting. Dim - or smarter than the average?

Lord Paul of Sheffield · Oct 11, 2011

I'd go with Ron on this Roach and Chub in rivers

barbelboi · Oct 11, 2011

I believe that repeated events can be converted to long-term memory even with fish supposing to have a short attention span or short-term memory. Hence, the older fish of a species being somewhat more cautious and harder to catch than the younger chaps. IMO the hardest to catch are large roach and chub (also possibly large eels?, a species I rarely fish for so can't really classify from experience).
Jerry

Simon K · Oct 11, 2011

BBC NEWS | England | West Yorkshire | Scientists highlight fish 'intelligence'

I think the "short-term memory" has now been debunked.

There's probably more to fish than meets the anglers' eye.

chub_on_the_block · Oct 11, 2011

I think i would go with older chub, roach and carp living collectively in a small shoal of individuals. Big shoal fish like bream have a cattle mentality, whilst pike and perch sometimes exhibit witless abandon as far as baits are concerned.

Im impressed that nobody has mentioned dolphins - its amazing how often i hear people saying they are a fish.

terry m · Oct 11, 2011

Don't get intelligence confused with conditioned reflexes.

The earlier comment regarding age = harder to catch is true in most species. Development of certain reflexes in response to certain environments to ensure survival is clear, but this is not necessarily inherent intellegence.

The remarks about predators are also true, sometimes the feeding urge appears to be so great that all caution is thrown to the wind as baits or lures are attacked.

chub_on_the_block · Oct 11, 2011

I think the conditioning applies to perception of risk or threat. Pike have few threats on them, fish like old roach or chub have survived countless threats and fine-tuned their responses to them.

If a fish can be easily "tamed" - like carp does that make them more intelligent or maybe they are just more adaptable?. Im sure you could train a carp or goldfish to ring a bell for its dinner...if you were so inclined!.

I think tench and chub are two of the most wary fish. When i put two golden tench in my garden pond earlier this summer i didnt see head or tail of them for six weeks. After that, they rapidly acclimatised and are now as tame as the Koi. Their ability to simply disappear - in a clear pond with little cover - was remarkable.

Jeff Woodhouse · Oct 11, 2011

chub_on_the_block said:
but what is the most intelligent fish

The one that's a damned sight smarter than most anglers!!!

Alan Tyler said:
Conversely, there are the insultingly-termed "mug" fish, who (may) have learned that getting caught is no big deal, so get an edge over their mates by scoffing everything, and using time spent in a keepnet for a bit of pike-free digesting. Dim - or smarter than the average?

Got to agree with that one!

I reckon survival instincts rate highly in most species, but that shouln't be confused with intelligence. Most animals live for the moment, don't depend on the future at all as it doesn't exist until it happens and then it's no longer there.

flightliner · Oct 11, 2011

Chub without a doubt are the most "intelligent". Putting the deception bit to one side you only have to see what they get up to during the playing of one to see that they are no mugs (they dont fight to the marquisse of queensbury rules). Having said that most fish species can be terribly easy to catch at times.

Ray Roberts · Oct 11, 2011

Fish that go on the missing list may not have "wised up", but may have found a safe plentiful natural resource to exploit and be preoccupied feeding on that.

Sean Meeghan · Oct 11, 2011

"Recent research had shown that fish recognised individual "shoal mates", social prestige and even tracked relationships. Scientists had also observed them using tools, building complex nests and exhibiting long-term memories."
Sounds very much like typical internet forum posters really - no wonder we often have problems catching them!

Peter Jacobs · Oct 11, 2011

Sean Meeghan said:
"Recent research had shown that fish recognised individual "shoal mates", social prestige and even tracked relationships. Scientists had also observed them using tools, building complex nests and exhibiting long-term memories."
Sounds very much like typical internet forum posters really - no wonder we often have problems catching them!

Yes, and seeing that Calum Brown's work is now quoted on P*TA website(s) one has to wonder where the fincance for his 'research' came from?

chav professor · Oct 11, 2011

I don't now if fish can have something that can be percieved as intelligence, but different individuals within the same species seem to express through their behaviour, a marked preference for certain types of food/bait. I think it is not beyond the realms of reason to imagine that some fish also seem to have different 'personalities' - some individuals more cautious, some are risk takers, some flambouyant, some sociable, others reclusive!

---------- Post added at 10:50 ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 ----------

flightliner said:
Chub without a doubt are the most "intelligent". Putting the deception bit to one side you only have to see what they get up to during the playing of one to see that they are no mugs (they dont fight to the marquisse of queensbury rules). Having said that most fish species can be terribly easy to catch at times.

I don't know if I would say chub are intelligent - just very cautious! But one thing, how the hell do they manage to unhook themselves????

flightliner · Oct 11, 2011

chav professor said:
Re: What is the most intelligent fish?

I don't now if fish can have something that can be percieved as intelligence, but different individuals within the same species seem to express through their behaviour, a marked preference for certain types of food/bait. I think it is not beyond the realms of reason to imagine that some fish also seem to have different 'personalities' - some individuals more cautious, some are risk takers, some flambouyant, some sociable, others reclusive!

---------- Post added at 10:50 ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by flightliner
Chub without a doubt are the most "intelligent". Putting the deception bit to one side you only have to see what they get up to during the playing of one to see that they are no mugs (they dont fight to the marquisse of queensbury rules). Having said that most fish species can be terribly easy to catch at times.

I don't know if I would say chub are intelligent - just very cautious! But one thing, how the hell do they manage to unhook themselves????

Chav, I,m not saying that chub are intelligent, I put the word in comma,s simply to highlight it in order that it could be used for whatever it is that we refer to as such . Maybe "naturally occurring behavioristic tendencies" that we recognise as making the chub somewhat more difficult to catch might have been a better way of putting things, or, as you so rightly put it "just b----y cautious"!
How they manage to shed the hook is another big problem with them that will never go away, that said I think the roach as the monopoly on that one,

chav professor · Oct 11, 2011

flightliner said:
Chav, I,m not saying that chub are intelligent, I put the word in comma,s simply to highlight it in order that it could be used for whatever it is that we refer to as such . Maybe "naturally occurring behavioristic tendencies" that we recognise as making the chub somewhat more difficult to catch might have been a better way of putting things, or, as you so rightly put it "just b----y cautious"!
How they manage to shed the hook is another big problem with them that will never go away, that said I think the roach as the monopoly on that one,

Yes, agreed Flight

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