We know fish have different sensory ability's, and I was wondering if they were able to detect metal as in a hook swivel split ring ect before they actually pick up the bait? Could there be some form of residual magnetic field or could there be some metallic taste emitting from said hook ect there that would warn them that all was not well. Has anyone tried fishing with a non metallic hook ie wood bone ect or just a bait tied on the end of your line? This query has come about from a discussion on the merits of various rigs hook patterns and also myself biting into a piece of KitKat with tin foil still on it! Any comments on this would be much appreciated.
hook/metal sensitivity
- Thread starter Dusty
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Mark Wintle
Well-known member
The KitKat foil effect is (as I remember) caused by an electric effect of two different metals (the other being your mercury fillings). If that is the reason then unless the fish have fillings then this is unlikely!
Trisantona
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Quite right mark,if you have the old metallic fillings this with the foil and acid from saliva creates a mini lead acid accumulator connected directly to your nerve ends.
Alan Tyler
Well-known member
Some fish in muddy tropical rivers use electric impulses to find their way around and to locate food. For teaching purposes. we used to rig two electrodes to an amp and speaker to listen in as food and other objects were put in the tank. Drop a magnet in among elephant-fish and the clicking becomes a squeal!
Whether or not a weaker version of this sense exists in cyprinids, I'm afraid I don't know.
Whether or not a weaker version of this sense exists in cyprinids, I'm afraid I don't know.
P
Phil Hackett The common Boastful Expert :-)
Guest
And the water chemistry other than H2O contains what?
Alan Tyler
Well-known member
Loadsa solutes. Why?
P
Phil Hackett The common Boastful Expert :-)
Guest
Correct Alan and unless fish have become chemists and can analyse the water chemistry, then I very much doubt they could recognise the metallicness of a hook.
Just think of the plethora of metal objects you see in a river? Add to that the rocks and pebbles that have a metal content in them, the fish senses, assuming they had one for detecting metal, would be overwhelmed.
Just think of the plethora of metal objects you see in a river? Add to that the rocks and pebbles that have a metal content in them, the fish senses, assuming they had one for detecting metal, would be overwhelmed.
Alan Tyler
Well-known member
Hmm. But we're not really speculating about chemreception here, so much as the elecric effects of anglers' metalware - drop dissimilar metals in a conducting solution and a current will flow, a potential difference exist between them.
The electric organs of fish are derived from muscles, whether the lethal batteries of electric catfish, eels, and rays, or the sensory systems of the knife-fish and elephant-noses, and all fish have muscles.
The fact that muscles have developed into electric organs in several unrelated groups suggests that there can be a benefit to the fish in having such organs.
The fact that it hasn't happened in all fish suggests that the usefulness is limited to certain special habits and habitats, or that many more fish than we suspect can electrorecept(?) to a useful level that we're not aware of.
The electric organs of fish are derived from muscles, whether the lethal batteries of electric catfish, eels, and rays, or the sensory systems of the knife-fish and elephant-noses, and all fish have muscles.
The fact that muscles have developed into electric organs in several unrelated groups suggests that there can be a benefit to the fish in having such organs.
The fact that it hasn't happened in all fish suggests that the usefulness is limited to certain special habits and habitats, or that many more fish than we suspect can electrorecept(?) to a useful level that we're not aware of.
Alan Tyler
Well-known member
Oops. Went to make porridge and the computer posted while I wasn't looking...
Where was I? Oh, yes. Sharks. Apparently, the elecric current generated by sea water moving through the earth's magnetic field is both strong enough for sharks to sense, but fluctuates enough for them to sense the fluctuations and navigate by them.
Sensory overload? When we walk through fields of green, are our eyes so overloaded that we miss the poppies? Or even the slightly different green of weeds among the crops? Do all curries taste solely of chilli?
We cope in a sensory environment that's new and complex, and we're a pretty new animal; fishes are older than the hills, and I suspect its always a mistake to underestimate their sensory abilities.
When two new bits of metal land in their environment, they know. Whether or not they care is another matter.
Where was I? Oh, yes. Sharks. Apparently, the elecric current generated by sea water moving through the earth's magnetic field is both strong enough for sharks to sense, but fluctuates enough for them to sense the fluctuations and navigate by them.
Sensory overload? When we walk through fields of green, are our eyes so overloaded that we miss the poppies? Or even the slightly different green of weeds among the crops? Do all curries taste solely of chilli?
We cope in a sensory environment that's new and complex, and we're a pretty new animal; fishes are older than the hills, and I suspect its always a mistake to underestimate their sensory abilities.
When two new bits of metal land in their environment, they know. Whether or not they care is another matter.
P
Phil Hackett The common Boastful Expert :-)
Guest
We, Humans, are of a far higher order of animals than fish Alan, as I know you know. With far greater sensory development and definition.
My point was to address the ??..metallic taste emitting from said hook??? bit as asked by Dusty. Not the magnetic field of it!
That aspect of it I think you?re right may be greater than we think, based on what is known about some species of fish
.
My point was to address the ??..metallic taste emitting from said hook??? bit as asked by Dusty. Not the magnetic field of it!
That aspect of it I think you?re right may be greater than we think, based on what is known about some species of fish
.
Alan Tyler
Well-known member
So the next question is whether taking steps to remove metal from our rigs - by using teflon-coated hooks and plasticene weghts, for example - will improve our catches enough to be worth the bother.
I'm currently enjoying some success, by my sorry standards, with roach and bream using rigs incorporating a micro-swivel a couple of inches from the hook; I frequently get bites on the drop. 300 milion years of selective pressure refining their sensory systems, but they just don't mind the ironmongery as long as the bait behaves naturally.
But that won't stop me worrying that a really rig-wise old chub or carp could join the dots and avoid that particular morsel.
I'm currently enjoying some success, by my sorry standards, with roach and bream using rigs incorporating a micro-swivel a couple of inches from the hook; I frequently get bites on the drop. 300 milion years of selective pressure refining their sensory systems, but they just don't mind the ironmongery as long as the bait behaves naturally.
But that won't stop me worrying that a really rig-wise old chub or carp could join the dots and avoid that particular morsel.
R
Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA)
Guest
Metal Hooks!!!
Wait whilst we have nanofibre hooks.....
)
And lines made from plaited spider webs.
Did you know that a single filament of spider web has incredible strength?
Wait whilst we have nanofibre hooks.....
)And lines made from plaited spider webs.
Did you know that a single filament of spider web has incredible strength?
F
Frothey
Guest
With far greater sensory development and definition.
if we have, we've forgotten how to use it. our sense of smell and taste (which is much the same thing) is better than a sharks?
if we have, we've forgotten how to use it. our sense of smell and taste (which is much the same thing) is better than a sharks?
F
Frothey
Guest
i think if you're at a stage where you're worrying about the hook being metal, you've got you're angling to a fine art.
like phil said, what about all the otehr metal things laying around, how do they know the difference between them and youre tackle?
like phil said, what about all the otehr metal things laying around, how do they know the difference between them and youre tackle?
Alan Tyler
Well-known member
I'd suspect that "neat" metal objects stick out like neon signs in the waterscape, and that new ones would be noticed.
Whether or not the fish care is another matter.
I don't actually get the chance to fish for any wise and ancient monsters - so far as I know - so I'm not fretting. But if I paid a fortune and changed my lifestyle to fish a water where one bite a month was good going...
Whether or not the fish care is another matter.
I don't actually get the chance to fish for any wise and ancient monsters - so far as I know - so I'm not fretting. But if I paid a fortune and changed my lifestyle to fish a water where one bite a month was good going...