Crucian Record Falls Again

stagflaps · Oct 13, 2011

The pedigree of the fish hasn't been established yet, but a scale smaple has been sent off. If it's a true crucian it smashes Bowler's current record by a mile!

Crucian Record Goes Again

andreagrispi · Oct 13, 2011

That's no true crucian - it also doesn't look much over 3lb!!!

S-Kippy · Oct 13, 2011

Doesn't look like a crucian to me either...not a real un anyway.

chub_on_the_block · Oct 13, 2011

I dont think it is either - the eyes look too large for a start, but i do hope for that captors sake that it is. Rather have a specimen crucian than a brown goldfish any day of the week.

Dicky (Angling Trust PAC) · Oct 13, 2011

It'll be interesting to see what the new BRFC DNA test regime make of it...

I hope his sample preservation skills are better than his photography...

Cos unless the magazine is holding back better pictures it is a wonder that DC's dad could only supply a very blurred image... rendering conventional taxonomy redundant.

It is however good to see that DNA has now re-opened the crucian record to claims from other waters.

barbelboi · Oct 13, 2011

Not sure, as crucians differ from water to water, and this pic looks more like a Summer Pit version than say a Marsh Farm fish

Whatever, this time at least there's no secrecy or 'confusion' on a particular complex as to which pond it actually came from.

Jerry

S-Kippy · Oct 13, 2011

Certainly hasn't got a classic crucian look to it....the head's all wrong for a start but I suppose we shall just have to wait & see.Given the water, I'd be suprised if there was a single true crucian in there.

Neil Maidment · Oct 13, 2011

Interesting! I know GV very well indeed and have had many "Crucians" over the past 6 or 7 years. All have come from the Canal Bank of Gold Lake and some have pushed the 3lb barrier. Some look absolutely spot on but obviously there a many, many carp, koi's, goldfish and God knows what combinations in all the lakes.

The latest was a few weeks ago and looks pretty good to me:

Also agree with Barbelboi. Looks very similar to the Summer Pit fish of a few years ago and nothing like the Marsh Farm fish. I've caught many from both and they are almost "chalk and cheese".

tigger · Oct 13, 2011

It looks like a crucian to me, just not a good pic.

chub_on_the_block · Oct 14, 2011

looks spot on to me too. Lovely fish. (Neil's fish that is)

Neil Maidment · Oct 14, 2011

Peter Rolfe's excellent website includes some correspondence (early part of 2011) about the GV "Crucians". Makes interesting reading:

Correspondence

FishingMagic · Oct 14, 2011

For comparison our editor with a brace of 4lb plus 'Summer Pit' crucians

Neil Maidment · Oct 14, 2011

OK then

Here's a Marsh Farm 4lber (only one tho

mg

:

Mark Wintle · Oct 14, 2011

Just because a water has true crucians in it doesn't mean they're all true! Neil's fish (from Gold Valley) looks a good 'un but it's better to see the results of the DNA test before passing judgement though why the scale has gone to Nigel Hewlitt of the EA is anyone's guess; he/the EA doesn't do DNA testing for the BRFC. A good example of mixed populations is Meadow lake at Somerley, Ringwood had genuine crucians to 3-10 in the mid/late 80s but also one or two F1 crucian x carp as well; I had a couple of 4lb and 5lb fish at the time but you could just see tiny barbules. Same goes for the adjacent King Vincents that has DNA tested crucians, hybrids (crucian and goldfish varieties) and brown goldfish.

chub_on_the_block · Oct 14, 2011

Lovely to see all these cracking crucian photos. I am not convinced that the Summer Pit ones are 100% though. I have had some identical to those (but at 2Ib or so) that had with comet-tails!...goldfish hybrids - including one that had the right buttery colour.

Rasmus Keis · Oct 14, 2011

In Denmark crucians have been one of the favorite fish targeted by specimen hunters for years now. But here we talk about two different species: The common crucian and the silver crucian. Not really sure about the difference - and yes mostly it takes DNA testing to decide what type has been caught, but I think some experts can tell by the number of scales on the side of the fish.

Have never fished for them myself though.

The danish records are quite impressive by the way: common crucian 3,95 kg and silver crucian 4,00 kg.
Silver record: http://www.7days.dk/images/Fish/General/rekorder/karussesoelv4,00kg.jpg
No picture of the common, but here is a picture of the old 3,7 kg record: http://www.7days.dk/images/Fish/General/rekorder/karusse3,7kg.jpg

Bob Hornegold · Oct 14, 2011

I really like Crucians and I like reading about Crucians, but I think the only true way of sorting the True from the Hybred is by DNA testing.

They seem to vary so much in shape, size and colour, it's extremely hard to tell if they are True in any other way ?

We were told that there are some True Crucian in and around the Epping Forest Ponds ?

This is possibly true as a leading expert use to live in Epping Forest, but to be honest, unless they were DNA tested know one would believe you if you caught a record !!

View image in gallery

Bob

chub_on_the_block · Oct 14, 2011

Bob - another lovely photo!

Rasmus Keis said:
But here we talk about two different species: The common crucian and the silver crucian.

Thats fascinating. I used to see the two types you mention. Buttery gold ones from Witley Park, later Bury Hill and a drabber greyish version that was less stocky and more delicate looking (more dorso-ventrally flattened to use the technical jargon) from most other places - places where catching a crucian was generally unexpected as they were not present in numbers Now i only see the dark brown/bronzy very chunky goldfish types in the places i fish.

Dont have any photos to share, but if i get a chance i will photograph the 40 year old Pure CrucianxPure carp hybrid still living in my garden pond which i took from Witley Park in about 1985!!

barbelboi · Oct 14, 2011

chub_on_the_block said:
Lovely to see all these cracking crucian photos. I am not convinced that the Summer Pit ones are 100% though. I have had some identical to those (but at 2Ib or so) that had with comet-tails!...goldfish hybrids - including one that had the right buttery colour.

Ask the ed.re: SP as he has a lot of local knowledge. I'd be very surprised if anything negative was proved, I've had crues from both the SP and MF approaching 4lb and as discussed earlier are two very different lookers. Personally I prefer the MF's

Jerry

chub_on_the_block · Oct 14, 2011

barbelboi said:
Ask the ed.re: SP as he has a lot of local knowledge. I'd be very surprised if anything negative was proved, I've had crues from both the SP and MF approaching 4lb and as discussed earlier are two very different lookers. Personally I prefer the MF's

Jerry

Maybe they represent the two types as noted in Denmark?

For the record..Re. Bury Hill, I remember in the early 1980s that you could buy live brown goldfish on site to use livebaiting for pike fishing there, so there is every possibility that some goldfish DNA has got into the mix from survivors..i havent fished there since the mid 1980s but i did get a 2Ib true crucian on my last session there, before Milton Lake was built i think.

Crucian Record Falls Again

Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Moderator

Banned

Well-known member

Moderator

Administrator

Moderator

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member