line roller the cause of line twist

Some time ago i put up a post asking does anyone know how to fix a reel that's putting an excessive amount of twist into the line.

And i think someone said that shimano had a similar problem with one of their reels and recommended seizing up the line roller.

As a last resort i recently took apart the line roller on my reel and gummed it up with a small piece of bluetack, hey presto it has stopped twisting the line.

So much for line rollers, it seemed well engineered along with the rest of the reel, the line roller was very free running with plenty of ball bearings.

The reel was a faps axiohm 4000, i didn't want to bin it as i paid over ?30 for it after reading an internet review

you might need to keep moving the possition of the roller to prevent a grove being worn into it in one spot


rollers arnt meant to reduce twist but reduce friction

Keith Arthur was the first person I can recall stating that rollers cause excessive line twist and should be superglued, he has banged on about it for a number of years now and there are those that agree and those that don't. The only way to find out for sure is to do it and see what the results are which is precisely what you have done Nicky and you have found it to be true.

Never tried it myself as I havn't suffered too much from the problem and I use a Gardner twist buster if I think it necessary.

I know graham,i think you get a bit of line twist with all reels, but the line twist that this particular reel was causing was so bad that it made the reel unusable, after using for half an hour with the float you'd get constant birdnests with any slack line.

Stopping the line roller from spinning has definately cured the problem just have to watch out for wear now, i've seen the groove that beecy mentioned before

And now for the truth.

The idea of the line roller first of all is to prevent friction which will damage the line and in time put a dirty great groove in the bit of the bail arm the line passes over. Remember the bail arms on the early Mitchell 300s?

Of course the early line rollers often didn't roll. They do now of course because there is a ball bearing in the roller.

Secondly, consider what happens to a new line first of all when you wind it onto the reel from the spool. If you keep the axis of the spool at right anglers to the axis the the new line spool you are feeding the line with untwisted line. As you wind the line onto the reel, you will be putting a 360 degree twist with every turn. When you cast the line will return to being untwisted. The line roller maintains this property of the line.

However if you stop the line roller turning you will cause the line passing over it not to maintain this twist and concentrate the twists into the forward part of the line. This is one of the reasons why line rollers were designed in the first place. This is why every fixed spool reel these days has a line roller that works.

**** Walker was one of the first to recognise the problems with non-line rolling pick-ups an nagged the tackle trade regularly about the need to fit rollers. The Intrepid Elite, as a result of Walker's nagging was the first reel to one fitted. It wasn't a very good one however.

The notion that line rollers should not roll is retrograde from both an engineering and practical point of view.

The main reason for twists in lines used on fixed spool reels is the bait runner or drag which allows line off the reel in the twisted stated, or the spinning of some rigs or lines during winding in.

Coupled of course with a line roller that does not roll.

Some reel manufacturers even call line rollers: "Twist Busters"!

I dont doubt you for a second ron, but the line roller on my reel was definately causing the severe line twist

What make of reel is it?

The reason is probably because it isn't rolling.

i have four, of the reels called twistbusters ,and dont suffer a lot of line twist

you will be putting a 360 degree twist with every turn

Sorry to disagree, Ron, but it's 180 degrees every complete rotation of the bale arm. But what you are saying is absolutely right in all other respects - line rollers can only help the twist get spooled evenly, not eliminate it.

If you think about the nature of monofilament nylon, it's slippery and smooth, so doesn't neccessariliy need a line roller - just something hard and slippery to run over on it's way to the spool.

Of course, it's not the nylon that wears the groove in a chromed brass roller, or even a stainless steel one, it's the grime adhering to the line having an abrasive effect - nylon's a brilliant self-lubricant, which is why it's used to make some bearings.

the make is faps and the line roller was turning very freely you could see it turning when you rotated the handle.
In fact as far as the line roller spinning it spun better than any of my other reels

Can you explain in better detail how you get 180 degrees Mark?

Some nylon mono has a shiny finish, some is matt. Compare Diawa Sensor with Drennan sub-surface green for example.

Any sustance rubbing against another, assuming zero particles of grit etc, will cause wear in time. I've seen fly lines, albiet coated with grit, wear darned great grooves in SiC lined fly rod tip rings. And SiC is supposed to be one of the hardest materials around.

However the abrasive properties of dirt are very real of course.

The other reason for a roller is that it enables the angler to crank against a fish far better. You feel the fish much better through the handle. There is also another thing. By having a roller you prevent heat through friction, and as we all know, nylon can be severely affected by heat.

with regard to how much twist is put on the line for each revolution, quite a few factors come into play, so I don?t think you can give a general figure of 180 or 360deg or whatever


the reason I say this is that I work for a spring manufacturer, springs that are made by winding wire or bar round a mandrell. So far we have not been able to come up with an accurate reliable formula for calculating the amount of twist that occurs when steel wire/bar is wound. What we do know is the diameter of the material being wound, the diameter of the mandrel and the pitch of the coils all make a difference.

Whether it will be the same for line I dint really know, and I certainly don?t understand the maths behind it !

i dont suffer hardly at all with line twist, i use all Daiwa twistbuster,s reels apart from my pins. Ido feel its a lot to do with modern line, we never used to get line twist on old bayer perlon and maxima, with old reels ,one sure way to induce line twist is to reel in whilst the clutch is slipping.

You have made a very good point there Beecy based on fact. In theory of course, it seems that the line gets a 360 deg twist with each 360 deg turn of the bale.

But I think other factors come into play here.

Bang on Stikflote about reeling in against a slipping clutch.

One thing I am convinced about is that a line roller which does not roll and as a result creates a lot of friction, will tend to concentrate the twists in the line in front of the reel.