Bolt rigs/fixed leads for pike?

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Andrew Webber

Guest
I seems to be accepted that running leads are better when ledgering for pike. This is obviously to minimise resistance when the pike first grabs your bait and to prevent it spooking and dropping it.

I fish pretty big baits most of the time so I can only get away with leads up to an ounce. Quite often when I'm casting out I notice the lead and the bait hit the water a longway apart as the lead as slid up te line. I was thinking of putting a ledger stop or something on the line maybe 6 inches from the swivel. Would that be enough free movement?

When ever I pop baits up I just put 3 SSG on the trace directly below the swivel, so thats essesentially a fixed lead, would a link ledger type of thing be better?
 
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Andy Doughty

Guest
I think that the most important thing is a change in resistance. If you have lots to start with then keep it there, if there is nothing to start with then keep it that way too.
If a pike picks up a bait and moves the lead at the same time then it doesnt seem to worry about the big resistance.
When a fish takes a popped up bait and does anything other than sink straight down it has moved the lead at the same time as taking the bait be it 3 SSG or 3 ounces. I think thats why runs on pop ups are far more positive 99 percent of the time, if there is water movement then its easier for the fish to take a bait whilst on the move.
 
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Paul Williams

Guest
With big baits i fix the lead when going for distance, otherwise it falls back during the cast as you discribe, a tight line and heavy indicators are then used.
If i want a running set up i use smaller baits.
If the pike want those big baits they don't imo drop them because of the weight of the lead, whether it makes it a bolt rig or not i'm not convinced but it does lend itself to better indication of a take.......a freelined (weight free) mackrel tail at distance can have one hell of a bow of line in it and trying to tighten up can pull the bait well off the hotspot.
 
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Charlie Bettell

Guest
Personally speaking, I don't think you can beat my good ol' Confidence Rig - is has no fixed/semi-fixed weight, it is anti tangle proof, it is also anti bite off and anti snag proof. The leger weight can even be made to stay next to the wire trace when in flight - i.e. without having to fix something behind the leger weight. It works for leger weights ranging from 1-4oz! What more could you ask for!

The Confidence Rig, which is a 'float leger rig', even has the ability to make a deadbait, appear to a pike, to be alive (!)

I will be doing a feature on my Confidence Rig, on Predator Fishing UK, very soon.
 
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Andy Doughty

Guest
Oh no, not the Confidence Rig again...

Seriously though, I look forward to seeing the article on PFUKs site.
 
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Paul Williams

Guest
Is the release date April Ist Chas?... ;o)

"appear to a pike to be alive"...now theres a debate!......someone once wrote that pike knew moving lures weren't "alive".....personally i think they take them from instinct...they don't "think" them alive or dead, they just try to eat them and then decide if edible........what do yo lot think?
 
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Peter Waller

Guest
I think an action might well be imparted to the bait, especially with deads in a tidal water such as the Yare or Thurne. Whether the pike see them as 'alive' or just attractive is, until we can find a pike that talks, a matter of conjecture. Personally I think it is worth using mackeral flappers but I have never thought of them as 'alive', just as flappers! But, looked at logically, fish that don't move tend to be dead, fish that move tend to be alive. Pike surely don't think, they react.
 
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Andy Doughty

Guest
Apparently Great White sharks sense if a meal is worth eating on the 'first bite'. If it doesnt have enough fat in it to make it worth the effort of eating it and offset the risk of injury to the shark then it leaves it.

I wonder if pike have the same ability to do this, hence you get people talking about baits being 'mouthed' and fish letting go of lures?

That said, I do think that the pike is an instinctive fish. Appeal to the pikes primal instincts and you will catch it.
 
GrahamM

GrahamM

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Charlie said, "I will be doing a feature on my Confidence Rig, on Predator Fishing UK, very soon."

Charlie, you can always do the feature on FISHINGmagic (either instead of, or as well as, on your Predator site) if it makes it easier for everybody............
 
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Peter Waller

Guest
I think what Andy has said re sharks is spot on for pike, hence the success of soft rubber lures.
 
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Gerry Castles

Guest
...so Peter Mrs Pike takes a bite of your Mag grub and goes mmmmmm yummy, polydebylsolominiun glutomate, gimme more !
ps I made the polywotsit name up.
 
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Peter Waller

Guest
No Gerry, Mrs Pike hits a hard lure and spits it out whilst, when hitting a soft lure, thinks its nice & soft & hangs on. Obvious really! The polyunsaturatedsolominium flavouring of the mag grub is akin to the male hormone in flavour.
 
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Chris Bishop

Guest
Bolt rigs definitely work. I started doing it because I couldn't get lead and bait to land together in a marina mnouth, now I almost always use it when legering.

I reckon semi-fixed, say with a foot or so of free movement and a backstop works a treat.

If the bait's hooked on properly, the fish pricks itself in the mouth.

How many of these "free running" rigs perform like they're supposed to, especially when you've got current or undertow dragging the line around, the line sinking in a bow (if you still use mono...), the lead dropping into silt or weed etc etc...?

I reckon a decent self-hooking rig would save a lot of pike.

It also works for zander - maybe because you hook them during that initial rush when they hit the bait to kill it.
 
GrahamM

GrahamM

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Most running leger rigs don't run anyhow, especially in rivers. And if you've used just enough weight to hold bottom then a running leger is a waste of space. The lead will move as soon as the fish picks the bait up regardless of if the lead is fixed or running.

Even on stillwaters, unless fishing vastly overweight in true bolt-rig style, the lead will move before the line will run.

Most anglers would be surprised just how little the line runs in most legering situations.
 
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Chris Bishop

Guest
Do we really expect a pike to think: "Well pickle my pectorals... That smelt feels seven or eight grammes heavier than it ought to do..."
 
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Steve Burke

Guest
I agree with Graham about light running rigs not running. Part of the reason is the friction of the line through the swivel or whatever you use to attach the weight.

To make such a rig run you've got to use a heavy lead. This then stays put and the indicator moves instead. A light lead bumps along the bottom and this often causes big perch for instance to drop the bait. Perch will usually tolerate a constant resistance but not a varying one.

Turning to pike, I don't these days fish pressured waters for them so use carp style semi-fixed leads when ledgering. I haven't noticed any difference at all in my catch rate.
 
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Gary Knowles

Guest
Andrew,

going back to the original question. I get over this problem by tying the lead to the swivel on the trace with pva string. This gives a 'fixed' lead for casting, then the pva melts leaving a running lead.

Like Graham said earlier the only way though a lead will act as a running lead is if it is a heavy one. A lead od 1-2oz will just be dragged around as the friction caused by the movement of heavy line will be much greater than the mass of the lead on the lakes bed. Even when using small baits with a big lead (for the big chuck) I tend to pva the lead to the trace to ensure the baits remains near the lead after casting - particularly important when popping a bait up ! ! !
 
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Gary Knowles

Guest
No Gerry it grabs a mag grubb and thinks......... "shit - why am I being dragged backwards ?"
 
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Steve Burke

Guest
Gary, I like your idea of PVA string. I'll be trying it this year on sunken float paternosters. Hopefully this will improve casting and the bait and lead won't separate.

As far as leads go I think you're being rather pessimistic re the size of leads needed to make running rigs run. Whilst I accept I'm using thinner line, I commonly use leads of 1 to 2ozs when perch fishing and they do indeed run.

I think the answer is to use either a very light weight so that the slightest pull moves it. Obviously you'll have to take into account any current (or undertow). Alternatively, especially with livebaits, use a heavy lead as already discussed.
 
GrahamM

GrahamM

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The obvious problem Steve, is that the fish don't always run directly away from you. The more they run towards you the more inclined they'll be to move the lead.

That's one reason why I use a semi-fixed lead much of the time these days. I use a running lead with a silicon float stop (Drennan float stops are best by far) anything from 2 or 3 inches to a foot or more up the line.

That way they definitely have the chance to pull the line through the swivel but are pulled up short by the float stop shortly after.
 
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