Pike protection

Right, some might not agree with me with this one but i have just been reading about pike protection. As we all know the pike is millions of years old even before man so why the hell do men talk about protecting pike then go out and slam bits of steel into them and drag them out of their homes? Sometimes even if the angler doesn't realise it, pike can die from angling. Yes when we catch pike lets take care of them but lets be honest are we really protecting them?

We can't agree or disagree, you haven't actually told us your position on this, just asked questions.

Are we protecting them? Well every person who joins the PAC is protecting them by supporting the organisation that has (and continues to) changed the view of pike that most anglers held.
The PAC challenges pike culls, teaches proper handling methods, promotes good practice, educates other angling bodies on the role of the pike in an ecosystem and provides a focal point which enables the pike anglers of this country (and others) to share information on tackle and techniques to the benefit of the fish themselves.

That's what I think.

madmatz said:

Right, some might not agree with me with this one but i have just been reading about pike protection. As we all know the pike is millions of years old even before man so why the hell do men talk about protecting pike then go out and slam bits of steel into them and drag them out of their homes? Sometimes even if the angler doesn't realise it, pike can die from angling. Yes when we catch pike lets take care of them but lets be honest are we really protecting them?

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Just out of curiosity Matt, what's your source for this info, book or DVD.

madmatz said:

but lets be honest are we really protecting them?

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No. It's impossible as we're not there 98% of the time, not even the die-hards are and all fish have so many enemies.

What we can do is care for them the best we can when we catch them, but there are different strands of thought on that. Some go over the top completely, a bit like the carp boys who buy a jacuzzi pool (almost) to erect on the bank for unhooking instead of a simple mat and whilst others in the old school simply lay there fish on soft grass. Who's right? No one killed their capture, as far as I know, but one wants to say more about himself than the other who simply wants to catch fish and return them unharmed, do you think?

It's a big area for debate, but don't enter it if you have a 'holier than thou' attitude because someone will likely shoot you down. Each to his own so long as their intentions are good.

i was reading on another forum someone banging on about how gags should be banned from sale to protect pike and while i dont use a gag myself i think if it helps a new/novice piker to remove the hooks safely and return the fish alive instead of just tearing the hooks out then they can be a helpfull device again i dont use em but they can help.

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Derek Gibson said:

Just out of curiosity Matt, what's your source for this info, book or DVD.

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info on pike been millions of years old? and that some pike do die from angling?
the info was from both video and book

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Jeff Woodhouse said:

No. It's impossible as we're not there 98% of the time, not even the die-hards are and all fish have so many enemies.

What we can do is care for them the best we can when we catch them, but there are different strands of thought on that. Some go over the top completely, a bit like the carp boys who buy a jacuzzi pool (almost) to erect on the bank for unhooking instead of a simple mat and whilst others in the old school simply lay there fish on soft grass. Who's right? No one killed their capture, as far as I know, but one wants to say more about himself than the other who simply wants to catch fish and return them unharmed, do you think?

It's a big area for debate, but don't enter it if you have a 'holier than thou' attitude because someone will likely shoot you down. Each to his own so long as their intentions are good.

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shoot me down what for i aint said owt wrong its a fact that fish protection doesnt involve slaming sharp hooks into them it just gets up my nose when i hear an angler slagging others of and saying we should protect fish. yes take care of them whem caught but that aint protection

madmatz said:

shoot me down what for i aint said owt wrong its a fact that fish protection doesnt involve slaming sharp hooks into them it just gets up my nose when i hear an angler slagging others of and saying we should protect fish. yes take care of them whem caught but that aint protection

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Then if there's two sides to the argument, protection for the species or care for caught pike, which do you want to discuss?

Eric Edwards said:

We can't agree or disagree, you haven't actually told us your position on this, just asked questions.

Are we protecting them? Well every person who joins the PAC is protecting them by supporting the organisation that has (and continues to) changed the view of pike that most anglers held.
The PAC challenges pike culls, teaches proper handling methods, promotes good practice, educates other angling bodies on the role of the pike in an ecosystem and provides a focal point which enables the pike anglers of this country (and others) to share information on tackle and techniques to the benefit of the fish themselves.

That's what I think.

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eric take a look on the pac website gallery there are members on there with fish that have been rolling round on the floor covered in dirt and other debris. then some that look like they are trying to fold the fish in half. and a few that look like there trying to rip the pikes head off. good handling?

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Jeff Woodhouse said:

Then if there's two sides to the argument, protection for the species or care for caught pike, which do you want to discuss?

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what im saying is why do some people say we should protect fish then go out fishing? if you want to protect them leave them alone

again take care of them but that is not protecting them

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You're not a pike angler then, Madmatz? The pike I catch are treated as humanely as every other fish I catch, unless they're for livebait, in which case I hook and cast them as gently as I can in case I want to release them if I don't catch anything with them. As for pike, if I decide to eat them, I bang them twice on the base of the skull with just the right weighted tool. Always does the trick and very humane.

Nope, can't see any of the examples you've cited.

The thing about the PAC is that not everybody's an expert, we're all learning and the best way to learn is from each other.

we are learning but my point is to the people that say protect fish then leave them where they are thats the best way to protect them

You have a very simplistic view of the world.

The creatures that are least endangered are those that have a close association with man. Cows, sheep, dogs, all have a certain future. It's the ones that get ignored that suffer the most. If we didn't fish for pike no-one would be bothered about them. We care for them because they are a resource like leather, water or wool and because we care for them they thrive.

Eric Edwards said:

The creatures that are least endangered are those that have a close association with man. Cows, sheep, dogs, all have a certain future. It's the ones that get ignored that suffer the most. If we didn't fish for pike no-one would be bothered about them. We care for them because they are a resource like leather, water or wool and because we care for them they thrive.

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I'll go with that too.

Most of the GP look at a water, be it a river or lake, see a few ducks, swans, the odd cormorant maybe, and think oh isn't this a beautiful river/lake. They have no concept of what goes on beneath the surface and don't care either. As an example, go around the areas of the river Crane near Heathrow and ask the public what they know of that river and you'll get blank faces, not one (or you'll be lucky to find one) will know of the devastation caused by the recent pollution incident. Ask them what they think of Thames Water and they'll just say, I pay my water bill to them, and smile.

So let me put it bluntly, no one outside of angling gives a toss about pike and the only reason we do is because they are a part of the aquatic environment that gives us our sport. Or think of this famous Murphy's Law -

Left to themselves, things go from bad to worse.

sorry mat but i'm still confused by this thread .... from previous threads i know ur an angler, so u dont hold to the 'protect fish by not fishing for them' theory ... so therefore i hope that ur in the 'care for the fish u catch properly' group
but u have issue with people who say protect fish and then they fish for them .... so is there a point to this that i'm missing? or are u just against bad grammar????

i think having the right gear for the job and taking care when unhooking the fish before gently releasing the catch is important with every species.
with pike i find its more important to hold them for a short time in the water so they can catch their breath and swim away. ive seen many anglers just drop a pike back into the water s if it was a perch or roach, this pike gets very stressed after its caught and can roll if not supported when it goes back into the water. i dot fish for pike during the summer as i find the fish takes 3 or 4 times as long to recover after a fight than it would in the winter.
a lot of predators are actualy delicate creatures and if we want to keep up the sport then we need to show some more concern for the catch than we would for a hardier species like a carp.

Looking at it from ''my'' perspective having started my own pike fishing in 1952. The last fifty years has seen massive efforts made in the interests of pike welfare/protection. Why else would the Gaff, pike Gag and the abused ''fish for the table'' mindset have been disgarded? I'll tell you, because a few enlightened pike anglers were striving to develop better/more efficient techniques and tactcs, all aimed at minimum damage to the fish. And why, to preserve future sport, that is ''protection'' in the long term. And that work continues today courtesy of the PAC, and even though I am no longer a member,(for personal reasons), their work is invaluable, especially to newcomers to the sport.

I am content in the belief that the ''vast'' majority of pike anglers go to great lengths to cause as little damage to the fish,(save for a hook hole) as possible. I fail to see how that does not demonstrate 'protection''

The only other option would be for ''all'' anglers to cease fishing, and that is unacceptable. We fish because we want too, indeed some of us need too, and providing we observe certain guide lines, the future remains bright.

Come on Matt, lighten up.

in my opinion the protection of all fish should be a top priority and to do this i believe protection of the habbitat needs to be looked at first, i have not seen any figures but the rivers i fish have little angling preasure where as some rivers with bigger better reputations get a lot of preasure.
no fishing zones or limited fishing zones would greatly help the habitat as does the close season.....
i used to go shooting and there were regular changes to the list of what can and what cant be shot i think that is the wrong way to go i think we need more nature reserves and harsh penalties for those who hunt and kill in these areas.
as for pike protection there is a number of things anglers can do from correct handling to reporting your catches to help gather data im sure.
but i am happy that pike have survived so long that they will be just fine and the number of jacks around this summer just backs up my thoughts
happy fishing

I also started fishing in 1952 (pike a couple of years later under the guidance of my father) and, therefore have been through the various stages that Derek mentioned. Unfortunately, as in any part of life, It's the small minority that seem to carry all the publicity, not the vast majority that quietly get on with their pike fishing with the minimum of fuss and the utmost care for their capture.
Jerry

My own philosopy behind this is that when we handle a pike carefully and are concerned that the environment in which it lives remains clean and unpolluted, it's our way of saying thank you to the pike, for the excitement you have given me in catching you.

And much can be said to all the other species we catch and release.

For if we didn't do this, the fish themselves would just become valued as food, nothing else, and in no time at all there would be few fish swimming in the waterways of this country. We have a vested interest in maintaining the populations of fish.

Thank goodness we do.

all good coments guys and most seem to miss understand what i was trying to say the pike has been around for years even before we started to fish for them so who ( protected ) them then? hunting is not protecting thats all im saying we hunt because we like it not because where been protective thats my opinion.

Ok. Let's just choose a date that we can all associate with, 1878 - the introduction of the close season (even though I'm not in favour of it as a modern day tool). Prior to that anglers stood back from any organised protection of the fish (all coarse fish that is) and to some extent they didn't need us. Anglers hunted them, but we were only there in small numbers relatively speaking and posed little threat.

Going back even further, there weren't anglers as we know them - AND - hardly any industrialisation around the river systems. No harms and no threats meant no one even bothered about fish so they were left to their own existance, pike being top predator survived better than most. You can go back then through the middle ages, back through Biblical times, back even beyond the ice age and pike had no threats from the outside hence it's true that for millions of years, they didn't need protection.

However, since the early 1700s and more particularly after the invention of the steam engine, this country has become more an more industrialised and because of better health and diet, more and more populated. Sufficient to say that it cannot help but put pressure on rivers and other sources of water so that now, more than ever, all fish (don't set aside pike) need our help to keep an eye on the rivers etc. If we turn our backs for one year, there will be uncontrolled mayhem, water companies wanting to do 'self-monitoring' (yeh?), bypass sewage systems (Thames Water), and companies wanting to just dump poisons into the sewerage.

Times have changed in the past 200-300 years, vastly. Just think about it for a moment. That's why we need to look after the fish we catch, and protect all the fish we don't catch. To do this, you could do no better than join the Angling Trust.