Specimen Groups

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A very nice read Simon and something I can relate to.

An enoyable read, I`ve always been a great believer in the localised specimen group ideology, having formed by own group back in 1976 in the days of the National Association of Specimen Groups, (NASG). What year was the Osprey group formed?

A very enjoyable and interesting article Simon

Ive also just read Bob's Is there a place for Specimen Groups Now?
I missed it the first time round, but I did have other things on my mind at the time.

Ive tried on a couple of occasions to get a specimen group started up here in the NE (Northumbria not Yorks) but all came to nothing. Perhaps its the hardness of the waters(fishing), and the fact that for about 45 of the last 50 years we've had various 'authorities' controlling our waters/rivers that could only see salmon and sea trout. Well, they did see the coarse fish, during the regular netting sessions.

On the National scene (I was going to say Front) is there still any interest in Bob's suggestion in his thread?

I know we do now have, finally, the AT recognizing Specialist Angling and the remnants of what was originally the NASG/NASA and then the SAA through the SAFG (Specialist Angling Freshwater Group), but it/they now only communicate through a closed Google loop - hardly 'sociable' and its Chair sits on the AT Freshwater Committee. The last 'physical' meeting of the group was cancelled because only two responded to the e-mail invite, I was one and I think Bob might have been the other, and that was meant to be a combined meeting with the prestigious 'Predation Action Group'

I keep being told [through a DVSG member of the CSG ] that there is some kind of informal meeting of some groups, and one member of the MKSG had a posting on BFW last year about another larger type organisation being set away, but that appears to have died. So, I ask, is there still a desire/need for a non political group for specimen/specialist (I do hate that word specialist) groups and anglers, perhaps affilated to the AT through the SAFG for the political side?

The Monk said:

An enoyable read, I`ve always been a great believer in the localised specimen group ideology, having formed by own group back in 1976 in the days of the National Association of Specimen Groups, (NASG). What year was the Osprey group formed?

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Monk,

There is a link to the Osprey Group at the bottom of Simon's Article.

Osprey was formed in 2003 on the dissolution of the RMC Specimen Group.

Most of the original members of Osprey were members of the Old RMC Group and although the Group has changed quite a bit over the last 8yrs, about half of the current membership came from the RMC Group.

Osprey is a Modern form of a Specimen Group, utilising the Internet as it's main form of contact.

Which means it is not a locally based group, although there are anglers within Osprey who fish together, because they live in the same area of the country.

We are fortunate to have some very well respected Big Fish Anglers within the group, along with experts in the many different forms of angling.

And there is a broad range of ages within Osprey, from 20 to 70yr old anglers all sharing a common interest in catching Big Fish.

John

I would like to see closer links within the Single Species Groups and Multi Species Groups.

Lets hope the formation of ATs Freshwater Groups will head in this direction ?

I would like to see a NASA type section formed which concentrates on Specimen Fishing and less on Politic's !!

Buts thats only a personal thing and I think it comes down to the various groups to arrange a meeting sometime in the future ?

Bob

I honestly cant see that happening within the AT, Bob. With all credit to the AT, and to Will Smith, for promoting SA on its web site, I cant ever see the SAFG, or the AT, being to SA what NASA was.

As I said it (SAFG) now relies upon a closed Google loop, and that is currently only being used by about four, two of those are Will Smith (AT) and Chris Evans the Chair of SAFG.
I really cant imagine any 'virtual' riotous drunken chubbers falling through swinging windows via Google, no matter how much 'instant interactivity' there is through fibre optic www
It was suggested that the AT National Freshwater Committee meetings be held via a video conferencing link though

The NASA magazine was an excellent production and even in its latter days the SAA 'Specialist Matters' was eagerly awaited, because they contained SA info and articles, but by its very nature the twice yearly AT newsletter will never be what they were. NAFAC too always produced a quality quarterly magazine, and it always had a healthy balance sheet.

As for SS groups being 'elitist'; I cant speak for any of the other SS groups but that tag would be the last to be associated with the CSG. And I know (but no one would admit to it) that our autumn weekend venue is almost always selected to give the best chance of taking a good barbel or two

john m h said:

and one member of the MKSG had a posting on BFW last year about another larger type organisation being set away, but that appears to have died. So, I ask, is there still a desire/need for a non political group for specimen/specialist (I do hate that word specialist) groups and anglers, perhaps affilated to the AT through the SAFG for the political side?

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Hopefully Tim Walden will come on and update us with that, John. I know he's busy with work and has had limited weekend time for fishing recently.
We're supposed to be doing some chubbing together soon and I hope to find out if there's anything "inter-group" we can work on.

And catch some Big Chub, of course.

I suspect the cost of petrol may dampen things for some.

Thanks for all your comments. From what I can gather, most specimen groups tend to be geographically "localised", which Osprey isn't.
I have wondered, from the point of view of outsiders, whether there are anglers out there who are intrigued by the positive benefits of joining a group, but may have been put off by some of the inherent problems that seem to surface, in a very public way, with some of the single species groups?

The way Osprey works is very much for members to do their own thing in whatever way they see fit, but provide (or ask for!) help, in real or virtual terms, when it's asked for. It's all about communication.
As I mentioned, there are single species anglers within the group (not many), but if they have any particular "ethical" viewpoints, that's entirely their own choice and respected as such.
Osprey is about catching fish.

The only thing we ask is for people to respect the rules, chief of which is the respecting of the "Closed" aspect of the website and cementing the element of Trust.
This is the one element of Big Fish pursuit that you can't get in the public domain.

john m h said:

I honestly cant see that happening within the AT, Bob. With all credit to the AT, and to Will Smith, for promoting SA on its web site, I cant ever see the SAFG, or the AT, being to SA what NASA was.

As I said it (SAFG) now relies upon a closed Google loop, and that is currently only being used by about four, two of those are Will Smith (AT) and Chris Evans the Chair of SAFG.
I really cant imagine any 'virtual' riotous drunken chubbers falling through swinging windows via Google, no matter how much 'instant interactivity' there is through fibre optic www
It was suggested that the AT National Freshwater Committee meetings be held via a video conferencing link though

The NASA magazine was an excellent production and even in its latter days the SAA 'Specialist Matters' was eagerly awaited, because they contained SA info and articles, but by its very nature the twice yearly AT newsletter will never be what they were. NAFAC too always produced a quality quarterly magazine, and it always had a healthy balance sheet.

As for SS groups being 'elitist'; I cant speak for any of the other SS groups but that tag would be the last to be associated with the CSG. And I know (but no one would admit to it) that our autumn weekend venue is almost always selected to give the best chance of taking a good barbel or two

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John,

When we went to those meetings my head would spin with the amount of intials banded about by those involved in the politic's of the various groups who have been involved in Specimen fishing ?

Completely mind blowing in by opinion and when it was suggested that we have Vidio Meeting instead of Face to Face meeting I knew my days were numbered.

There is far too much Politic's in Fishing and at it's lowest level, it leaves most anglers of all types completely out of the equation, going to work is hard enough for most of us and to come home to the same sort of mindless politics in your Hobby is not what most anglers want too do !!

Having been in many Specimen/Single Species Groups for many years, it would not be hard to get together with other groups if the will was there.

Unfortunally, we now need representation at the highest level, too represent all angling needs.

But this does not mean The Single Species or General Specimen Group is out dated or not needed.

Far from it, information about " Fishing " is always needed and in the case of Osprey, the members prefere to catch Big Fish of all Species.

Yes you can do it on your own, but it's far easier if it's a joint effort.

Bob

Judas and Monk.

Is (or was) there anything different from what I've outlined that you did with your groups that made them "tick", for want of a better word?

Or something you wish you had done differently?

Hi Simon

I formed the Manchester Carp Group back in 1976 from a group of friends, over the years we envoled many times at our busiest we had 75 members, some from different parts of the world as far away as Spain and South African, we kept together by newsletters and magazines and regular meetings, fishins and events, often raising money for charities and the like, while many of us also had political involvement being members of committes like NASG, SACG, SAAs, with individual memeber belonging to most of the National single specie groups, these days we are less active, mainly staying together through emails and phone calls. At the time of the amalgamation of NASA and SACG I sat on both committees, NASA was a solicial orientated specialist umbrella group, SACG started off as NASA`s political arm, when we formed into the SAA it was essentially political, which was of course needed.
However I`ve always felt a vacuum was created with the demise of NASA. Going back futher to when my good friend Eric Hodson formed NASG on 24th April 1965, NASG was set up for three main reasons, political, social and scientific development, the latter has been taken over by the tackle manufacturers, NASA took over the social and the political was kick started by SACG.

Monk,

I use to love those old NASA meetings and feel that somewhere along the way we have lost a bit of the friendlyness when SAA was formed, now part of Angling Trust.

I accept that we need a strong voice in Angling Politic's, but it's as if those who are more interested in the Politic's of Angling seem to be the leading lights of all forms of angling now ?

When I went to the Game Fair, it was all very much the Game and Match fishing side of things that were represented at Angling trust, not the Specimen side of angling.

I know we now have the AT Freshwater Groups being set up, but these seem to be lead by the Political section of the SAA group ?

Somewhere along the line Specimen Angling (Single Specie and Multi Species Groups) have to get their act together or they will be left out in the cold.

Osprey of course has had it's, Fish-ins, Meeting, Newsletters and the Internet site !!

I would like to think there are other Groups of Specimen Anglers, who would benifit from forming a band of like minded anglers under the banner of Specimen Hunters Group.

Bob

Bob,

You are recognising what I understood many years ago and got into awful trouble for stating that in an opening address to the NASA conference.

Most anglers are not interested in politics and you only get them interested by drip feeding not full on in your face which is what happened with the demise of NASA.

I don't see a resurgence today though because we have all moved on and the new generation works off the net rather than at once a year get together.

The Angling Trust would be well advised to pick up on he fact that you "net" anglers socially first of all and you only "land " them after they are on board in that social capacity.

I'm not putting a downer on what you say but I take a far more pragmatic stance these days.

Steve,

I'm not really sure what you mean ?

Osprey is a member of the Angling Trust and is Happy to be represented as part of the Trust.

The Trust has to be political, it's the very nature of the beast.

But the Politic's of Angling, is not the only side of angling and it would be easy enough to organise a Specimen Groups get together if so wished ?

Lets be honest about it, I have belonged to many of the Single Species Groups including the Barbel Society and have many friends within these groups.

It's whether a Big Specimen Group Conference would be of interested to the Modern Specimen Hunter Groups and by this I mean all the Single Species Groups.

As we both know, organising Grayling/Carp/Eel/Barbel fish-in's drives you mad, so who would want the extra hassle of organising a Big National Meeting.

But you only have to go to the Carp Shows to know it's perfectly possible, get a few Names on board, together with the Trade and anything can happen.

I know that this has not gone un-noticed by the Angling Trust and hopefully once AT have sorted out their teething problems and a National Conference will take place.

We can only hope ?

Bob

Hi Bob,

I was never a supporter of the SAA swallowing up NASA, the political wing became the dominant force and unfortunately the side of NASA that I think you are referring to just disappeared.
The story was that the individual groups were becoming bigger and so the only need for an umbrella was in the political sense.

I have always believed that a strong social bond between all the different groups would be to everyone's benefit but the right person never came along to make that happen.

I'm suggesting that while AT is the political voice they ought to be imaginative enough to come up with a Conference that would embrace all and would certainly nurture a closer understanding.

There is scope for one big national meeting I'm sure but it must be good and that takes money, drive and initiative.

As you say we can only hope but it would have my personal support.

Steve,

And mine.

Give it time, I'm sure it will not go un-noticed just how successful the Carp Shows are and they are a Single Species Specimen Group

Bob