River Fishing

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BAZ (Angel of the North)

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Talking to a mate the other night, we were discussing river fishing.

We were both of the mind that river fishing has taken a turn for the worse and beyond repair. And that it is all related to Barbel. The angst on most, if not all of the threads on here is Barbel related.

Of course it is wrong to blame the Barbel its self. It is the type of angler that is fishing for them. Two rods fixed bolt rig and bite alarm style. And everything that goes with it.

We all know that they are not a hard fish to catch, more of how to avoid them. Is this what makes them so popular? We see gangs of kids who have obviously never seen a roach or a perch armed with rod and see line making for the rivers. Adults have also had a very destructive part to play in the demise of river fishing as it used to be. Have Barbel been over popularied? I think they have.

The face of River fishing has changed dramatically over the past five years, and I don't think it is for the better. For anybody to say each to their own, or live and let live is wrong. There is something very harmfull in the way that river fishing has gone.
I think there are a number of us on this site who have seen and had the best of it.

Any opinions?
 
Graham Whatmore

Graham Whatmore

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You and your mate obviously don't fish the right rivers or maybe you don't fish the rivers right because the rivers are still full of fish.

Weather conditions may have changed the times of fishing and rivers do run a lot cleaner but the fish are still there, its the anglers that are missing not the fish.

True if you just want to throw out a feeder during the day and hope for the best the chances are you won't catch a fat lot but if you have seen any of the results of the Wye matches last season where they are mostly float fishing you will see they are bagging up big style with 50lb plus bags of roach quite common but won't get you in the first three.

The Severn fishes much the same as it ever has but again you need to adjust time of fishing, instead of packing up at 6pm you should be starting and again the float will catch you plenty. I suspect this is true of most river not just the midland ones.
 
F

Fred Bonney

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Yeh,Baz,the opposite to yours.
Your talking minorities.
Most unlike you to generalise......yeh right ;o)
 
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BAZ (Angel of the North)

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Thanks Graham.
I am not talking of the lack of fish though. More in the way that people behave. Take the Trent for instance,and the problems that it has created since Barbel became the in species. It was always known as a top Roach river. But it doesn't get publicised for the Roach anymore does it? Maybe it should..... Or not.
 
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BAZ (Angel of the North)

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It might be down to the areas that I know of Fred. But I think you will agree that the Trent has, and probably does still have its fair share if problems since the Barbel boom.
 
GrahamM

GrahamM

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To a great extent I agree with Baz on this one. Yes, you can catch roach from the Trent and Ribble and Dane. But compare it with roach and dace fishing (especially on the Dane) from years ago and it pales in comparison.

Today those fish are in quite isolated pockets whereas they were commonplace years ago.

That's not to say that our rivers are not cleaner; they are, and they grow bigger fish than they ever have. But barbel in rivers have, to some extent, done the same damage (the right word depending on your viewpoint) that carp have done to other species in stillwaters. And barbel have without doubt attracted those anglers who would rather sit and wait for fish rather than try to catch them.

I'm not knocking that as I often fish like that myself. But fishing like that has become the norm rather than the exception it used to be.
 
I

Ian Cloke

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Baz, if you want a decent days roach fishing give me a call mate (when the season opens of course) and I'll take you to some of the best river spots around.
There are however still some barbel in these rivers, and you do get the people going to "target" them, and them alone. This in my eyes is a sad thing, as they are missing out on all the other species and the fights that they put up when caught on proper tackle (as opposed to a 2 1/2 lb test rod).
 
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Nigel Connor(ACA ,SAA)

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Baz, keep the faith.

Throught the country there any still a good number of river anglers plying their skills in the old ways using old fashioned baits for old fashioned fish.Witness the interest in FM's Grayling days last year.

They do not use much bait nor need much tackle hence why they are of little interest to the angling media and that is the way they would like to keep it.

Certain areas of the Ribble and Trent may have ther issues but I am sure even on those rivers you can get a nice quiet day's trotting somwhere.
 
F

Fred Bonney

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No Baz,there are occasional problems on the Trent,but most of the time, you don't see another soul.
That applies as much to Collingham, as anywhere else too.

Nigel,you certainly can,the roach are there too, in good numbers and size.

Like other rivers, you will still see the trotters,but,that style of angling,will never be, the main activity, for most of today's fish catchers.
 
W

Wolfman Woody

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"you will still see the trotters,"

I wondered who that was selling hooky tackle on the bank.


It has all changed. At one time the Trent was a stick float river, 6 pints to a gallon of casters and a very careful eye on the float. That was when even good anglers were pools fodder to the many excellent anglers fishing the matches.

Pegs didn't matter either as it was entirely about skill. Thirty and forty pounds of roach were the norm with many more on the best days. I don't know how the matches fish these days, if there are any matches, but I would bet it's nothing like it was.

What you are talking about, Baz, is the creation of the "instant angling expert", just as in carp fishing. Some are good and have practiced fishing like this for a long time such as Lee Swords, but others are simply following the trend, buying the "right" gear and thinking they are as good.
 
Graham Whatmore

Graham Whatmore

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I really don't understand why people knock the barbel, it is a river species for goodness sake there is nothing wrong with them, if there is a problem at all it is with the barbel anglers not the fish.

Sure they altered the fishing patterns when first introduced into rivers that hadn't previously contained them but the likes of the Severn, Wye, Avon have all settled down now and offer wonderful fishing. It may be that the black death has certainly caused a reduction in quantities of fish in some areas but nature has a way of replacing these losses.

I mentioned in that second post about the size of catches on the Wye around Hereford and remember, these guys are fishing at the least productive times, with a certain amount of bank disturbance and they aren't targetting barbel either, a bit of application is all it takes.
 
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Nigel Connor(ACA ,SAA)

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Graham SShhhh!

I will not be able to get a peg when I pay a visit next year!
 
Graham Whatmore

Graham Whatmore

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Sorry Nigel, you know me, if I can point someone in the right direction for a bit of good fishing I will, no room for secret places in my life not that Hereford or the Wye is a secret for those who like float fishing, proper fishing as my mate calls it.
 
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Bryan Baron 2

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The shoals of fish are just not there on a lot of our rivers. Mainly down to the black death. So how is a newcommer to learn the art.

When i came back to coarse fishing a few years back now. I kitted myself out wih a stick float rod. This was because the only way you fished the river 30 years ago was to wade out and trot down to the next angler who was doing the same. the trget where the vast shoals of Chub Roach and Dace. Which i soon found no longer exsisted. In my first 5 outings i caught one chub which weight 4Ib 6oz. I soon joined the sitters with 2 rods. I must say thought that the last few years have seen fewwer commarants on the river and the smaller fish are making a comeback. Had some brilliant days last summer trotting the river.


Also as mentioned there are not a lot of advertising opertunities when all you need is a few shot and a float as opposed to the complicated end rigs that can cost ?1 to a ?2 to construct. So the mags and weeklies do not cover the topic as often.
 
Graham Whatmore

Graham Whatmore

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Bryan, you learned many years ago how to floatfish a river either through example or tuition, it would be no different to todays newcomers except they would learn when the right times are to fish along with how to.
 
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BAZ (Angel of the North)

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Brilliant replies lads, thanks very much.

Our Grahams post sums it up better for me, and Woodys post, refering to instant anglers (give that last one some thought). I think that is where the problem lies, and that is where angling on rivers especially has gone wrong. If I dare say it, failed Carp anglers, and the riff raff are a lot to blame.

Ask anybody who fished the Cotton Hall stretch of the Dane. This was the ultimate stretch of the river a few years ago. If there was only one place left for me to fish, then this would have been it. As it is today, I won't go near the place because of the circus.

My river fishing over the last couple of years has gone further afield, and I have to travel to get away from the types I am talking about, which is a real shame.

There is now one small stretch of the Dane which is Barbel free. And it is and allways has been one of the most peacefull stretches simply because it is bereft of Barbel. And long may it remain so.

Thanks for the offer Ian, I hope I can take you up on that sometime. I remember an article that Des Taylor wrote a few years ago about Roach fishing on the Severn in Winter. A couple of swan shot down the side and it looked and read like pure bliss. That is the kind of writing and fishing articles we are short of today.
 
J

john conway

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Well Baz, this year I?ve decide to do at least half my river fishing with the float and or quiver tip (one rod) and take on a more roving approach to my chub fishing. It?s time I targeted the smaller rivers like the Aire, Wharf, Ure and the Calder (that?s the Calder that runs into the Ribble). Now that?s not to say I?m not going sit behind two rods pointing into the sky on the Ribble, its just time to look a bit further a field and the two static rod approach is not appropriate for all occasions. I?m all fired up now and I can?t wait for the new season to begin, even though I?m enjoying my fly fishing.
I?ve just been reading quite a few back issues of the Chub Study Groups bulletins and Chevin magazines and I want to catch some of my chub the way the lads did, and still do, back in the 70?s and 80?s.
 
R

Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA)

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We should not knock the barbel. They are indigenous to England in rivers like The Trent, Thames and certain Yorkshire rivers.

But in my honest opinion that's where they should stay, where they will do least harm and where they truly belong. They certainly should never have been stocked into the Severn, Ribble, Hampshire Avon and Dorset Stour etc.

The Trent is now producing excellent catches of roach to those who know how to seek them out and catch them. I had two very pleasant sessions with roach at Dunham Bridge last year. And my friend Mick Lomas has been taking the roach shoals of the Trent apart recently.

My old mate Des, loves catching the Severn roach in winter. He put me onto a couple of stretches years ago where I had the most wonder sport. To be frank, roach fishing on the Severn is streets ahead in skill and satisfaction to chucking out bolt rigs and carbelling for barbel.

But if it's what the young and clueless amongst us want to do, who shall say them nay?
 
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David Naylor 3

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There's a lot of the older guys on here moaning about how the younger generation of anglers haven't got a clue about watercraft and more traditional techniques.
In my opinion it's the older generations fault that has encouraged this. At the end of the day it's your generation that's running the commercial fishing companies, and the comercial carp puddles. You're the guys that gave birth to this generation that doesn't know how to fish. Your the guys that should be encouraging your off-spring into more traditional styles of fishing.
I'm still in my 20's 'just' and I for one love to fish all different styles and methods. Admitedly there's a lot of room for improvement but that will only come with experience.


Grumpy old men or what! :eek:)
 
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