Photos for your comments

I've added a few sunsets and sunrises to a new album in the gallery and I'd be grateful for your comments.

Ken's Sunsets and Sunrises

I much prefer number 2. Two of you on a jetty?

The skyline is at a good level, maybe a little less bush on the right hand side but still good. And the colours are more natural. pretty good ballance overall, but who am I to judge?

Yes, I like No.2. I can see that the bush has been used to keep the full force of the sun out of the lens. It would have been tempting to use a little fill-in flash but I think it works better as it is; more of a silhouette.

No. 6 would have worked better with the angler less central in the shot. A little more to the left.

No.5 is by far the best photographically. You needed a good 'eye' to spot this one, let alone take it.

No. 4 would have been better had the horizon been straight.

Same with No. 1, but good considering it's a self-take. A little straightening in Photoshop is well worth it.

I have taken your comments on board, Graham. Many thanks for your suggestions. I've added a few more images for your comments too.

It's a shame you didn't have a happy time of it at the Chateau Lake. The place is so photogenic.

No. 7 & 8: nice shots but again, very slightly sloping horizons (and both sloping the same way, do you always carry your wallet in the right trouser pocket Ken?).

No. 9: Yes, ya big softie!

No. 10: Much better now it's straight; lovely horizontal lines of colours.

No. 5: Really like this one. Perhaps just a shade too much of the dark edges and not enough of the central scene. But very evocative shot.

No. 4: Great shot, love it.

No. 3: Another excellent shot. Just needed the camera dropping a little - remember the rule of thirds.

No. 2: Wonderful shot. Rule of thirds is spot on and has done much to make this a great picture.

No.1: Love this one with its subtle colours.

Hope you didn't mind me being ultra critical Ken. All of them are pictures to be proud of but I guessed you wanted some very thoughtful, but constructive criricism.

Chateau Lake? I loved the lake, just a pity about the other experiences we had when we fished there.

Thanks again, Graham. All advice gratefully received. I've changed the "Italy in January" pic by the way. I think this one perhaps has a bit more impact?

As for my wallet...Carole always carries that so no excuses there!

My missus can't carry my wallet. She's got a bad back.

Shes only got a bad back from trying to pull you off it!

Nice pics....made me want to go fishin!

I'd really really like to be able to match up Graham's comments with the pics, it's not often you get such an insight and constructive criticism at a professional level. However I have no idea (apart from Baz's comment about the two chaps on the jetty....) which number refers to which pic, also Ken's albums have been consolidated or reorganised....

Any idiots guide or identifier ?

Cheers

Evan, I'll try to help but I made a big cock up by adding to the same album so all the pix got asigned new numbers. I should have opened another album...

Graham's 1st Post.

His number 2 is the two guys on the platform.
His number 6 is the action shot in the sunrise.
His number 5 is the pic of the ferns.
His number 4 is the once of the Chateau Lake at dusk with a buzzer in the lower r.h.corner.
His number 1 is the shot of the sunset in Romania

Grahams second post:

His 7&8 refer to the photos that I have straightened in Photoshop, namely Romanai and Chateau Lake.
His number 9 is the couple kissing in the sunset.
His number 5 is the moody winter dawn shot at the Chateau Lake.
His number 4 is the photo of the reeds in the margins.
His number 3 refers to the oranged-filtered sunrise.
His number 2 refers to the photo called Clouds.
His number 1 refers to the picture of dawn in S.France.
I'll not make the same mistake twice, Evan. Promise!

I like no 5, the soft reeds.

Edit bit : Like also Dawn In Romania, excellent. And Clouds, also very, very nice.


One bit of advice, try not to get the horizon in the centre. The horizon isn't the top of the land, by the way, it may be the far edge of the water. Just that it splits a picture in half and artistically painters try to avoid it. Same with subjects, they should be to one side of centre.

However, it's not a rule cast in stone because old Vincent Van Gogh often committed the sin of placing the horizon in the centre. In fact, one of the cafe in Arles breaks every rule in the book, but you still would like to be there having a drink with him. Maybe.

Your picture of the two on the jetty proves a point. There's enough going on to distract you and the main figures are what is dictating the framing of the scene and they are on the left, better than them being dead centre.

For skys, you can't beat looking at some of Constable's works for guidance. He used to go out on trips, what he called "skying", simply painting skies and little else. Paul Cezanne was also good at landscapes and Edward Manet.

One of the best current british artists to paint landscapes is Joe Francis Dowden, a one time window cleaner, would you believe?

Take a look at these three and tell me, could you just dip your toes in that Jimena de la Frontera?

Now look at these.

I hear what you are saying, Woody...it's the Rule of Thirds business again, isn't it?

Awesome paintings. I could never paint worth a damn but have always liked photography, in an amateur sort of way. Thanks for your constructive comments.

Could someone explain the 'rule of third's' please. Ta.

By the way, cracking shots Ken! I know what you mean about Chateau being photogenic. Fished it twice in the late 90's but unfortunately it is not particularly childfriendly, so it may be a while before we go back!

Have got some lovely sunrise shots to remind me, though! Back in the days when the only decent shots could be got with SLRs. No second chance and no reviews. Had to wait to get home to find out whether they were any good or not!

Too chocolate boxy for me Woody. Stick to greys, greens, and browns for a more natural landscape.

I take no credit for the following description, but it explains the Rule of Thirds quite well:

Perhaps the most well know principle of photographic composition is the ?Rule of Thirds?.

It?s one of the first things that budding digital photographers learn about in classes on photography and rightly so as it is the basis for well balanced and interesting shots.

I will say right up front however that rules are meant to be broken and ignoring this one doesn?t mean your images are necessarily unbalanced or uninteresting.

However a wise person once told me that if you intend to break a rule you should always learn it first to make sure your breaking of it is all the more effective!

The basic principle behind the rule of thirds is to imagine breaking an image down into thirds (both horizontally and vertically) so that you have 9 parts. As follows.

<div align=center><img src=http://www.fishingmagic.com/news/images/thirds.jpg border=1>

<font color=#006666>The Rule of Thirds</font></center>


As you?re taking an image you would have done this in your mind through your viewfinder or in the LCD display that you use to frame your shot.

With this grid in mind the ?rule? now identifies four important parts of the image that you should consider placing points of interest in as you frame your image.

Not only this - but it also gives you four ?lines? that are also useful positions for elements in your photo.

The theory is that if you place points of interest in the intersections or along the lines that your photo becomes more balanced and will enable a viewer of the image to interact with it more naturally.

Studies have shown that when viewing images that people?s eyes usually go to one of the intersection points most naturally rather than the centre of the shot - using the rule of thirds works with this natural way of viewing an image rather than working against it.

Using the Rule of Thirds comes naturally to some photographers but for many of us takes a little time and practice for it to become second nature.

In learning how to use the rule (and then to break it) the most important questions to be asking of yourself are:

? What are the points of interest in this shot?
? Where am I intentionally placing them?

Once again - remember that breaking the rule can result in some striking shots - so once you?ve learnt it experiment with purposely breaking it to see what you discover.

Lastly - keep the rule of thirds in mind as you edit your photos later on. Post production editing tools today have good tools for cropping and reframing images so that they fit within the rules. Experiment with some of your old shots to see what impact it might have on your photos.

Ken, and ayone else who would like to edit their album details, here's an extract from the Gallery User Guide. This includes being able to set the primary image for the album and reassign picture numbers.

<u>EDITING IMAGES & ALBUMS</u>

You can change the details of your own images and albums.

Editing images
Click on the thumbnail of the image you want to edit and below the 'comments' field click the 'edit details' link. On this page you can change the name and description of the image, you can move it into a different position within the album or make it the primary image for the folder (i.e. the one that is shown on the album listing pages). You can even move the image into a different album.

Next to the 'edit details' link there is a 'delete image' link if you want to delete the image entirely.

Editing albums
Below the thumbnails on the album page there's an 'edit details' link. Here you can change the title and description of the album, and change whether the album is open, ratable and open to discussion. If you turn ratings and discussions off it will hide any ratings and discussions already existing for that album.

Once you have created an album you can edit all the details but you can't delete the album.

Changing your main album image
The first image you upload to an album is displayed along with other details on the album listing page. You can change this easily. Click the image you want to be the new main picture for your album and use the 'set as primary image' link.

Moving images around
Once you've uploaded an image to an album you can move it from that album into any other album open to you. Select the image you want to move and then the 'edit details' link below it. Change the album at the top using the drop-down list.

You can also move images around within an album, changing their order of appearance. Select the image you want to move and then the 'edit details' link below it. Change the 'position in current album' to move the image around.

Just to confuse even more (forget this as soon as you have read it) the rules of thirds actually stems from the rule of "The Golden Mean".

The Golden Mean is where A is to B as B is to the WHOLE (A+B).

Clear? - like I said - forget it now.



Photgraphing landscapes is extremely difficult, You are presented with a set piece and other than moving around it, closer or further away from it, you cannot change it.

Artists are very fortunate in that along with brushes and pencil, they also have a Pocket JCB. When they don't like the position of a feature, this imaginery device is brought out from their back pocket and they dig it up and move it either to a better position of completely out of the picture. It's called - artistic licence.
)

I wish I could paint really well, as good as Joe Francis Dowden and most of his paintings are created by splodging, would you believe?

The Golden mean or ratio is 1 to 1.6180339887, or roughly 2/5ths to 3/5ths. Nothing to do with thirds I'm afraid.

Though it is pretty useful when framing pictures....

When calculating and cutting the surrounds you will get a visually unpleasing result if you make the border the same width all round. It just somehow looks wrong.

Instead follow the golden mean and make the top and side margins the same width but with a bottom margin half as wide again (eg. top margin 1 inch, side margins 1 inch and bottom margin 1 1/2", or 2/2/2/3 etc etc). You will find that it just looks right and visually far more pleasing.

Why it looks aesthetically right to the human brain I do not know. Nor have two and a half thousand years worth of mathematicians worked it out yet either. It just does.

What I was driving at, Evan, is that in art, people couldn't work out where the "Golden Mean" was and so opted instead for thirds, being much easier to map out freehand on a piece of paper.

Well you try calculating roughly where 1 to 1.618 is on a piece of paper.