Frustrating Droppers

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Beermonster

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I'm now in my ninth month of fly fishing and for the last couple i've started doing a lot more imitative fishing. I could really do with some advice and comments regarding my leader and dropper set up. On my local stillwater my usual set up is a 15 to 18ft leader of 6lb fluorocarbon straight through with droppers water knotted in at approx 6ft intervals. The problem i'm having is no matter how short I make the droppers after almost every cast they are wrapped around the main line. I've tried using double grinner knots to make the droppers stand out from the main line more but even with tying them really carefully (lots of spit etc) I still suffered 2 breaking on me the other evening. I'm wondering about using the small stainless leader rings but 3 knots on each seems a bit time consuming and bulky. Any help, advice or comments you could give me would be greatly appreciated.
 
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Ric Elwin

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You can't stop the droppers wrapping round the main part of the leader.

It doesn't matter though, there will be enough of a gap between your dropper flys and the main leader for your set up to work fine.

Just watch for the occasional knot that can form at the junction of leader and dropper, these will significantly weaken your set up.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA)

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There are two schools of thought on droppers. That great still water fly fisherman Arthur Cove used to tie the three turn water knot and then take the dropper from above the knot. Thus does help to keep the dropper away from the main line but it weakens the connection.

I, and many others take the dropper from the bottom of the knot. But I also go to a lot of trouble to make sure that the droppers lay in line. Brian Leadbetter was adamant that this made a difference.
 
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keora

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Stiffer, thicker line helps the droppers stand away from the leader, and so does tying flies to a very short dropper length, say 2 to 3 inches. But they won't cure the problem completely.

I catch a fair number of river trout on droppers even though they may be wrapped round the leader.
 
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john conway

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If you use a blood knot this also helps the dropper to stand out, same principle as Ron mentioned with taking the dropper out of the top of the water knot. Not sure on the knot strength between water knot and blood knot?
If you are using a taped cast you can use the heavier line to form the dropper.
I use a three/four turn water knot with the dropper taken from the bottom and just live with the odd tangle and replace when the droppers looking a bit tatty.
Like Ric says its just something you have to live with just watch out for the dropper tying it?s self in a knot onto the main line. God knows how it does this but it does.
 
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Shrek

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John, that's sometimes a sign of poor casting technique.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA)

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Quite right Adrian. One of the main problems with what are called "wind knots" and tangled up droppers is the dreaded "Tailing Loop" and trying to cast too far with a long leader.

One of the best ways of preventing tailing loops is to watch your back cast.

By doing this you can make sure you don't execute your forward cast too soon. This is one of the main reasons for the tailing loop.
 
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john conway

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Adrian, I can probable understand that, just recently on the river Ure I?ve had trouble with my upstream casting when it?s been windy or very breezy. This is my first year on the Ure, it must be the windiest river I?ve ever fished on.
My other problem when it?s a bit windy is my taper leader catching on the blood knots. I?m too tight to buy the knotless taper leaders.
Downstream wet fly is not quite as problematic, as you can always wait for the lulls in the wind before casting, but upstream you?ve got to cast when the flow of the river dictates. Just at the moment I?m getting plenty of practice at tying flies onto leaders and redoing the ends of leaders whilst standing in the middle of the river.
 
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john conway

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Ron, that?s basically what I?m probably doing. I?m always nervous about my back cast ending up in the trees and bank side shrubbery. I?m also guilty of trying to get that extra metre on my cast when the weather conditions dictate more care.
 
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Shrek

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John,

It might well be worth your while investing in some lessons with a qualified instructor. Once he's sorted the basics out with you, he should be able to show you some alternative casts that you can use when there are a lot of obstructions behind you i.e. Steeple casts, snap t casts etc, Spey casts etc.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA)

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John,

I gave up blood knotting tapered leaders together years ago for that same reason. Try a knotless tapered leader, or even a straight lead without any taper at all.

But if you are casting directly into the wind upstream, you will find the knotless tapered leader superior, especially for dry flies.
 
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Shrek

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Bit of a single haul wouldn't go a miss in that situation either........
 
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john conway

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Adrian, I?ll suggest the lessons to our lass for my next birthday present? The steeple cast would be handy to learn; quite a lot of the river has a good metre or two of steep banking and then another metre of flood bank. It?s the same on the upper Ribble on the Long Preston Deeps (a short stretch of the Ribble on a flood plane just below Settle, lots of hair pin bends and very deep).
Not exactly sure what happens with the steeple cast when it?s windy?
Ron, looks like I?ll have to put my hand in my pocket and buy a few knotless taper cast and just use the old blood knot cast (sorry leaders) in an emergency.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA)

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The "steeple cast" takes a hell of a lot of doing in actual fact.

For most river work were you do not need to get out too far, roll casts or variations of them will help.

And there you will need a knotless tapered leader as the energy has to be transmitted smoothly from your hand, all the way to your fly.

You might consider trying the "Czech Nymph" technique with a long rod.
 
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john conway

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I know what the "Czech Nymph" looks like but what?s the technique with a long rod? I?m I right in assuming its up stream Nymphing and the long rod enables you to pick up a longer leader, hence giving you more water to cover.
 
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Bryan Baron 2

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The longer rod helps you keep in contact with the heavy leaded nymphs/bugs. you only cast a short line no more than a couple of rod lengths out upstream at around 45 degrees as the flies drift back you raise the rod to keep in contact then lower it again as it passes downstream. Helping the flies fish a stright path.


Forgot to add the grinner is no good with flouro as droopers. better using a copolymer like froghair instead.
 
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Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA)

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"Czech Nymphing" is a technique where you fish a fast river by dropping a weighted team of nymphs in front of you and then following them back towards and slightly downstream of yourself with the rod tip. Often a floating strike indicator is used.

Most of the time you are wading and rods are often as long as 11 feet.

You don't cast in the traditional way at all. The method does not suit all rivers. It is mainly used on rocky rainfed streams with lots of riffle.
 
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john conway

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OK I understand, I have fished like that, all be it with a short rod. I can appreciate the longer rod it's hard work with only an 8'-6" rod, but overall the short rod is ideal for most of the rivers I fish.
I went down to a mate's house last night and he showed me how to tie the pheasant tail and hears ear Nymphs. Just need to go on line and get a few bits and bobs then I'm away with Nymphs and most of the spider files. Not a bad deal really, a fly tying lesson swapped for a trip Barbel fishing on the Ribble in the autumn.
Up here in the Dales the weathers just clouding in and rain is expected tomorrow and Bank Holiday Monday, so it looks like my new Nymphs are going for their first swim shortly.
Tight lines to any of you who are out this Bank Holiday and I hope you all get a wee bit of the expected rain, the rivers need it.
 
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