Getting kids into fishing on the rivers?

laguna

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These days its commercial instant carpers or nothing!

I feel (and it has been said many times before) that the true art of angling at its basic level has been lost to the pressures from those who insist on fishing commercials for carp!
There is more pleasure to be had than sitting for days all gloomy in your bivvy waiting for the... BIG RUN!!!

I need an excuse to get back on the rivers more next year - even if it means fishing for bits, and what better way than to take some kids and teach them the basics?

Cumon dads/uncles/grandads, even fishing for minnows would be a better day out and cheaper too!
 

dangermouse

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Hmmm, maybe it`s just round here but I never saw any kids at my local fishery. I saw plenty on the Don and the canal though during the summer months.
 

Paul Boote

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Interview with four "kids" fishing whom I met as I walked a bit of Grand Union Canal in non-fishy mode back in the late summer:

Asked if they went to the local - West Drayton, Yiewsley, Iver areas - now-commercial stillwaters, one boy, maybe twelve, frowned and said "Too much money. The guys who fish them don't like kids like us - tell us to eff off...". Nod from another boy.

Fine Crabtree-an recipe for the future of Angling some of us in our greed have concocted, eh?
 

sam vimes

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I'm afraid that, like many, you confuse carpers and commercials. Most self respecting carpers won't be seen dead on anything that most would consider to be a genuine commercial fishery.

While I appreciate that there's no dictionary definition of what constitutes a commercial fishery, other than a fishery set up to make money, it's not what most consider a commie to be. Just because a place charges for a day ticket doesn't make it a genuine commercial imo. In Yorkshire, something like The Oaks, Woodlands and even Raker lakes are most definitely commercials. Only one of them has a genuine specimen lake. Only one of them would regularly see business from "carpers". However, many carpers won't go near the place.

Those that never fish them tend to lump all day ticket stillwaters in as commercials. Those that do fish day ticket stillwaters, don't consider most to be out and out commercials until they've got the whole nine yards, car park, multiple ponds, tackle shop etc, etc. Plenty of little farm ponds contain decent fish, are, by true definition of the word, commercial. I don't believe that anyone in their right mind would consider them to be genuinely commercial fisheries though.

As for getting kids fishing rivers, I'm afraid that it's peeing in the wind. River angler numbers are dwindling. Many of the dads, grandads and uncles that you are beseeching to take kids to rivers have largely forsaken the rivers themselves. They often don't have the skills required to teach anyone. I'm afraid that most would disagree with you about catching minnows. I do fish rivers on a regular basis but I'd rather catch pasty carp on an out and out commercial than catch nowt but minnows on a river. Casual anglers just want to catch some fish if and when they go. Commercial fisheries, like them or not, give them a far greater chance of doing just that.

Leeds and District ASA's Kippax Park waters are a sign of the times. Leeds have masses of river angling. However, they have felt the need to get involved in a semi-commercial operation. I don't know of the ins and outs of it for sure, but you can only assume that it was partly down to reversing the trend of dwindling membership with an eye to subsidising the other waters that could have been lost if membership had shrunk too far. Is it a genuine commercial in the way I think of them, no. To you? quite probably. However, if it is a commercial then so is any club water available on a day ticket.
 

itsfishingnotcatching

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but I'd rather catch pasty carp on an out and out commercial than catch nowt but minnows on a river. Casual anglers just want to catch some fish if and when they go. Commercial fisheries, like them or not, give them a far greater chance of doing just that.

Got to agree with you Sam, but I'm still going to try the BAA ticket next year, there's got to be more than minnows on all that water.
 

Paul Boote

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As for getting kids fishing rivers, I'm afraid that it's peeing in the wind. River angler numbers are dwindling. Many of the dads, grandads and uncles that you are beseeching to take kids to rivers have largely forsaken the rivers themselves. They often don't have the skills required to teach anyone. I'm afraid that most would disagree with you about catching minnows. I do fish rivers on a regular basis but I'd rather catch pasty carp on an out and out commercial than catch nowt but minnows on a river. Casual anglers just want to catch some fish if and when they go. Commercial fisheries, like them or not, give them a far greater chance of doing just that.



But being a deeply subversive sort - subversion of worn-out, "this is how it is done" "norms", not just for the hell of taking a pop at something or somebody - I went a step further with two of the lads I met beside the canal in the late summer: the following week I arranged to meet them on a bit of a local river I know very well and showed them a few barbel swims that I have had a lot of fun in over the years but stopped fishing three years ago after a bunch of ambitious carp clones turned barbeller nouveaux began chasing me all over the internet and even my local streets and shops to discover just where Boote was doing the golden wonder business. Showed them what to do and where to do it, even giving the keenest but poorest equipped of the two an old black, glass 1.5lb TC carp / barbel rod I had built on a North Western blank when I was not too many years older than he was.

Saw one of the boys in a local Tesco several weeks later, he finding me and appearing out of nowhere with a big smile - "We caught, mate. I had a six, my mate lost a biggie. Thanks.".

Job done.
 

Bluenose

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after a bunch of ambitious carp clones turned barbeller nouveaux began chasing me all over the internet

You should serialise that as an article. I'll bet Kev Perkins would love to hear the story and put his slant on it!
 

laguna

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Mine being that of a none syndicated day ticket still-water, but commercial definition aside... It is a sad fact that our rivers are neglected in preference to shall we call them carp puddle's? and the 'instant angler' syndrome. Stocks on rivers are at an all-time low as far as decent sized chub and barbel are concerned and the problems we have with abstraction, poaching, predation etc. Its no wonder our rivers lack the same appeal as they used to when clubs used to regularly stock and reinvest.

I'm just as guilty as anyone to the appeals and lures of 'guaranteed' catches on runs waters along with the occasional bivviying-up session. The good company and persuasion of friends sways me far too often than not (some of whom having little experience of river fishing anyway). Maybe i'm being nostagic but if I'm honest, the appeal of the rivers are again beckoning... hell, fishing a commercial I cant even remember the last time I blanked!:D

---------- Post added at 14:36 ---------- Previous post was at 14:30 ----------

saw one of the boys in a local tesco several weeks later, he finding me and appearing out of nowhere with a big smile - "we caught, mate. I had a six, my mate lost a biggie. Thanks.". Job done.

Fantastic! :w
 

steph mckenzie

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Getting Kids into fishing is more important than what type of fishing it is that they do. Once the bug for fishing has bit, then the scope for broadening the type of fishing is made easier.

If it isn't done on a Game Console then it just isn't fishing :w
 

sam vimes

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But being a deeply subversive sort - subversion of worn-out, "this is how it is done" "norms", not just for the hell of taking a pop at something or somebody - I went a step further with two of the lads I met beside the canal in the late summer: the following week I arranged to meet them on a bit of a local river I know very well and showed them a few barbel swims that I have had a lot of fun in over the years but stopped fishing three years ago after a bunch of ambitious carp clones turned barbeller nouveaux began chasing me all over the internet and even my local streets and shops to discover just where Boote was doing the golden wonder business. Showed them what to do and where to do it, even giving the keenest but poorest equipped of the two an old black, glass 1.5lb TC carp / barbel rod I had built on a North Western blank when I was not too many years older than he was.

Saw one of the boys in a local Tesco several weeks later, he finding me and appearing out of nowhere with a big smile - "We caught, mate. I had a six, my mate lost a biggie. Thanks.".

Job done.

Paul,
I can only commend you for it (not the being chased bit;), that's just incredibly sad). Sadly, in this modern world, where honest intent is so easily taken for something darker, I wouldn't dare take the risk. I've seen an innocent bloke destroyed by such a dark scenario. It's not a path I'm going to tread. A different story with kids of my own or of friends or relatives but, as yet, I don't have many of those to take fishing.

---------- Post added at 15:57 ---------- Previous post was at 15:43 ----------

Stocks on rivers are at an all-time low as far as decent sized chub and barbel are concerned and the problems we have with abstraction, poaching, predation etc. Its no wonder our rivers lack the same appeal as they used to when clubs used to regularly stock and reinvest.

See, this is where I'd beg to differ. I don't agree that stocks of decent chub and barbel in the Yorkshire rivers are at an all time low. Anecdotal evidence may suggest that it's the case on many southern rivers but my own experience of the Swale and Trent is quite different.

The Swale has always had ups and downs on a pretty much annual basis. It's often quite tough to catch a barbel or two, depending on where you fish. It's simply the nature of the river. Anecdotal evidence would suggest that last year was a fairly tough one for Swale barbel. However, there have been much tougher periods in the last thirty years.

As for the Trent, while we may be over the peak, we are still in a period of a barbel explosion. Many tremendous catches of barbel, both size and numbers, have been made this season. Frankly, it's more of a surprise if you can't catch a barbel or two on this river. Blanks, certainly in summer/autumn are a relatively unusual occurrence.

From my angle and the rivers I frequent, it isn't all doom and gloom that some would have you believe. Truth be told I'm more concerned about the relative lack of smaller fish and the smaller species than I am about chub and barbel stocks.
 

Bob Hornegold

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These days its commercial instant carpers or nothing!

I feel (and it has been said many times before) that the true art of angling at its basic level has been lost to the pressures from those who insist on fishing commercials for carp!
There is more pleasure to be had than sitting for days all gloomy in your bivvy waiting for the... BIG RUN!!!

I need an excuse to get back on the rivers more next year - even if it means fishing for bits, and what better way than to take some kids and teach them the basics?

Cumon dads/uncles/grandads, even fishing for minnows would be a better day out and cheaper too!

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Laguna

I think thats a load of Rubbish !!

There are many commercials and clubs who run thriving Junior Clubs, where general Coarse fishing is taught.

If you add to that the efforts of the likes of Les Webber and his helpers who also teach General Coarse fishing, then sweeping statements about Carp and Carp Fishing holds No Water at all.

Having said that I taught my Grandson to fish from an early age, float fishing, touch legering, Pike and Perch Fishing, he's 19 now and what does he do !!

Carp Fishing.

So rather than knock Carp Fishing and wear Rose Coloured Specticles, lets get Kids into fishing, any type of fishing, be it Carp, Match, Fly or General pleasure fishing.

Cause if you don't fishing as we know will not exist in 50 years.

Just have a look at your local fishing tackle shop to see how Carp fishing has kept angling alive.

And the like of Terry Hearn should be applauded for his efforts of getting kids into fishing ( any type of fishing ),

Bob
 

Keith M

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In one flourishing Hertfordshire club of mine that has recently broken the 2000 members mark (VAC) they have a flourishing Junior section with qualified instructers and junior matches and specialist groups. plus I think they even go round local schools promoting angling.

They even have an open day where anyone in the public outside of the club including juniors can try their hand at fishing with tackle provided by the club and has the local mayor presenting prizes etc.

Plus the club has Specialist Barbel days, and Trotting days on the rivers; plus Tench days and Carp days where members can learn from experts and which are all free to members old and young.

And Carp anglers are in the minority despite having huge carp in some of our waters.
 
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laguna

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Whooooo! what a barrage of abuse!

I think
Getting Kids into fishing is more important than what type of fishing it is that they do. Once the bug for fishing has bit, then the scope for broadening the type of fishing is made easier.
sums it up pretty well.

I'm a pleasure angler and as such enjoy all types of angling, have done for many years. Not being all and out speci hunter some obviously choose to misconstrue what I'm trying to say.

Get the kids fishing is all i'm saying! Teach them the true art of angling before those skills are lost to a gaming consol.
Whilst there are some very good clubs doing excellent work and teaching kids to fish. It is by no means a cop out not to take them ourselves. When did anyone here last teach kids the basics on a river or even want to? Is it any wonder those skills are dwindling?
Too many bloody selfish attitudes and your probably right, I may as well let the wind blow it all back in my face for all the good it will do!

Rant over ;)
 

sam vimes

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Whooooo! what a barrage of abuse!

What abuse?:confused:


Get the kids fishing is all i'm saying! Teach them the true art of angling before those skills are lost to a gaming consol.
Whilst there are some very good clubs doing excellent work and teaching kids to fish. It is by no means a cop out not to take them ourselves. When did anyone here last teach kids the basics on a river or even want to? Is it any wonder those skills are dwindling?
Too many bloody selfish attitudes and your probably right, I may as well let the wind blow it all back in my face for all the good it will do!

I answered this earlier. I don't have any kids to teach and I'm not going to take the risk in taking random kids, of any age, under my wing. As I mentioned earlier, I know a bloke that did exactly that, in a much better controlled and CRB checked environment, who ended up committing suicide because of the slanderous and utterly false accusations.

If and when my nephew is old enough, if I have kids of my own or even if a friend asks me to take their kids, I will. Until then, I'll retain my "selfish attitudes" for perfectly good reason.
 

laguna

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Sam, your own particular reasons are perfectly valid.
There is no doubt there is an element of vulnerability and risk. Owning a care business I'm all too familiar of the potential for accusation founded or otherwise. CRB checks -even at the most advanced level and countersigned by the CQC does not guarantee a candidates suitability.
As you say, when and if you have the opportunity to take kids fishing then you would/might and thats a 'real' positive.

As an all-rounder my statements are not personally directed towards anyone or any particular discipline, I would have thought that obvious. I am speaking out against those who for one reason or another wouldnt even consider teaching kids or indeed anything other than sitting around ahole in the ground - no matter what excuse they might dream up.

Damn shame that.
 

laguna

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---------

Laguna

I think thats a load of Rubbish !!

There are many commercials and clubs who run thriving Junior Clubs, where general Coarse fishing is taught.

If you add to that the efforts of the likes of Les Webber and his helpers who also teach General Coarse fishing, then sweeping statements about Carp and Carp Fishing holds No Water at all.

Having said that I taught my Grandson to fish from an early age, float fishing, touch legering, Pike and Perch Fishing, he's 19 now and what does he do !!

Carp Fishing.

So rather than knock Carp Fishing and wear Rose Coloured Specticles, lets get Kids into fishing, any type of fishing, be it Carp, Match, Fly or General pleasure fishing.

Cause if you don't fishing as we know will not exist in 50 years.

Just have a look at your local fishing tackle shop to see how Carp fishing has kept angling alive.

And the like of Terry Hearn should be applauded for his efforts of getting kids into fishing ( any type of fishing ),

Bob

Knocking carp fishing? Rose coloured spectacles?

Take a look at the majority of tackle shops up and down the Country possibly even Europe. Judging by the dedicated shelf space you will realise that Carp Fishing accounts for more that 50% of all expenditure - but thats my point! Why not show these kids that there is more (much more) to angling than sitting around a dirty great big hole in the ground fishing for carp?

Popular as it is, Carp fishing alone has not kept angling alive. It has if anything made fishing popular for ... Carp!
Your statement seems to suggest that if it wasn't for carp anglers the industry would be dead?
How popular was fishing before the advent of the hair and boilie?
It was just as popular then as it is now, possibly even more so and for all species too.
The popularity of carp fishing supercedes that of all other forms of fishing today. Because of its influence (the biggest draw being the size of the fish I imagine), the majority of newcomers will be persuaded to join there ranks without ever having experienced anything else. A great many have made a damn good living out of carp fishing over recent years and thats very good news for the tackle industry in general - it shows they are giving customers exactly what they want. Most will then reinvest and go on to make new products - which in turn is especially good for those bricks and mortar businesses that also have an online presence. We all need to make a living and we all need to make a profit but the huge private commercialisation of carp lakes up and down the Country only serves to put money back into the owners pockets. As a consequence everything else has suffered. The switch from rivers to commercials for carp (whatever your definition of coms might be) made possible by the hair and boilie, has encouraged carp fishing to the detriment and neglect of rivers along with the basic skills taught to us when we we're kids. As a result our heritage is dwindling along with the species that were in more abundance when most of our rivers were properly managed, stocked and cared for. Lack of footfall on the banks fewer working parties, no EU checks etc. all adds up to the controversy you see before you today.

How many kids do you know who know or use the terms 'trotting', 'touch ledgering', 'stret-pegging', 'holding back'?
To them mending the line means its broke, tying a loop to loop or straightening the hair whilst sat in a bivvy waiting for a bite! Who's responsible for all that ignorance?
Rather than just leave it to the likes of respected anglers like Terry Hearn to show them (a most fantastic and commendable job he does by the way), and I also include those excellent clubs here too. I would suggest each of us individually also has a personal moral duty to teach what we know, pass down our knowledge and ensure our legacy lives on before its too late. Not only will our skills be lost but the environment will suffer much more rapidly from the ignorance and uncaring attitude. but then thats possibly where my conservation argument breaks down. How many under 20's have the ability, skills and knowledge (and willingness) to do all that? There are some but the vast majority I suspect are carp anglers (judging by the shelf space) and never have or are willing to give river fishing a go let alone teach anybody. My apologies in advance to those that do and can (your own grandson included Bob). You probably have your mentor to thank for that! :w

I've enjoyed all aspects of fishing since I started in 1968 (aged 8) Carp fishing included since my early 20's. You cannot therefore tell me I'm making sweeping statements against carpers! How very dare you! :D
Teaching a kid only how to carp fish in a hole in the ground and little if anything else is my beef - otherwise the appeal and skills of fishing on rivers will not be of any interest to him/her and it will all be lost for ever.
Only once our kids are properly informed and exposed to other forms of angling can they go on to better choose their preferred discipline. Quite possibly most will still go on to catch carp but at least they will be more knowledgeable and experienced enough to be able to choose properly, switch if necessary and to do it with an open mind.

As the teacher says; "if its all one subject, you will become expert and knowledgeable about just one thing"! Okay I made that bit up but there's no denying its significance. :wh

You say you want a revolution...., But when you talk about destruction,
Don't you know that you can count me out! :rolleyes:
 
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