PVA bags

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Stevie 12345

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Pretty new to using pva bags and have been trying a few liquids with them without much success- ideally I was looking for something that would give off high leakage/ cloud and does not affect the pva breakdown time- any advice gents
 
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Frothey

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thing with these visible clouds id that a bag is never going to give much of a cloud for very long - probably as long as it takes for the first roach to get on the scene!
 
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Clive (Compact Angler ACA)

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I am afraid I am going back a few years (40 or so) but for cloud bait we used to use baked breadcrumb mixed with dried milk powder. Used to work brilliantly then. Definately won't affect the PVA breakdown time. I seem to remember the cloud lasting for absolutely ages in still water. There are also many more high aroma, dry ground bait mixes than there used to be.

A cloud can only be formed in water with either a dry or water based carrier and as the latter is out of the question it has to be dry. I thought that all cloud bait contained milk powder.
 
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Stevie 12345

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It is with a particular water in mind that I am asking the question and you cannot use groundbait at this water- my thinking was to use a liquid alternative to try and achieve the same effect as groundbait.

CC moores do a product called Red venom which supposedly creates a cloud effect when applied to pva etc.- although when I have used it I have been dissapointed with the results and I was really looking for alternatives.

Oils would be good for the leakage factor but I was looking for something that creates a natural cloud but not affecting the pva- instantaneous breakdown is still essential.

Any further thoughts guys?
 
T

The Monk

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I can remember using ordinary flour once in a PVA bag to create a cloud, you can flavour the flour and dry it out
 
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Foxy

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Stevie,

Try the red venom mixed with cooked particles. My mate and me whacked about half a bottle of the stuff in with 2.5kg of hemp & 2.5kg of mixed particles into a 10 acre commercial water and had 60 fish between us in one night, really seemed to get them going.
On the PVA subject, i have made a few bulk liquid attractants by mixing mollasses / CSL (50%) nutamino / multimino (30%) and whatever flavour you want (20%) it. Its "ok" in a PVA bag, but the bag tends not to melt fully and you get left with this horrible sticky goo! try it in a baitboat or spod its very good and puts a nice thick layer of attraction on the lake bed.

I have also tried mixing certain flavours with Geletine. It works best when you get the mix thick but not to thick so it sets, nice little edge, try it
 
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Stevie 12345

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Thanks gents for the advice, Foxy I may perservere with the venom and try using it in different ways, thanks again
 
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maggot drowner

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How about using the Dung Leads, they will hold a glug if you soak them for a few days and will leach flavour for an hour or so... One of my local water is really hot on the amount of loose feed and we use this method a lot with great success
 
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Stevie 12345

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Not come accross dung leads before but I take it that they are fairly standard leads that can take on flavour, will look out for them, thanks
 
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maggot drowner

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I first used them a couple of years ago, they are lead (WELL THEY'RE HEAVY) with a dung like appearance and they take glugs on really well, some carpers are now even dipping leaders to disguise them and leach flavour off too...
 
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maggot drowner

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I think the idea is that it camouflages the leader as well as puts a smell trail for the fish as the darker oils make the leader stand out less, I haven't used this as I don't use leaders, I still believe in using a lighter hooklink than mainline, with a lightly fixed bolt rig.

Going back to the gelatine trick, I have seen that used to really good effect before too but when I tried it I got a jelly that was as hard as a brick!!
 
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maggot drowner

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They give it an old, worn appearance and it blends in with the substrate better, it also is not leaving a big pile of bait around the hook, which makes the carp wary, only a smell trail and a hookbait. I've never used it myself but some of the carpers on our lakes use them all the time for the older more wary fish, and they reckon it gives them a big edge over those not using it, they do seem a lot more successful too.
 
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Frothey

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what about once the oil has leaked off (i take it we're talking braided leaders) - say an hour later, it'll look the same? may as well just use flouro leaders and a bait glugged in oil.

it also is not leaving a big pile of bait around the hook, which makes the carp wary, only a smell trail and a hookbait.

how does a carp know its a big pile of bait- especially at night? and dont forget they are introducing a "smell trail" - does the fish know that smell isnt coming from a bait?

could it be the amount of flavour or attractors, rather than number of baits, that gives off warning signals to a fish? otherwise single hookbaits would be irresistable.....
 
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maggot drowner

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I suppose it will keep some of the dye in the braided leader, but as you say,I stick with fluorocarbon for my hooklengths, a coated braid but never bare braid.

On the other hand if you are only giving it the hookbait as an option the carp may throw caution to the wind and just take it, but my theory is if you've got them grubbing around eating the loose feed they are more likely to take your offering too(I always use oils with pellets etc in bags/ mesh anyway)I totally agree with you Frothey, I'm only going on what the others do and say, I'm not a 'proper' carper anyway!!
 
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Frothey

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when you say leader, do you mean hooklength?

carp normally take singles as they are inquisative fish, and the only way they can investigate something is to get it in their mouths.... effecient hooking arrangement....bingo!

people who say that fish are spooking off beds of bait.... surely its the bait? if you spodded out a bed of bloodworm or maggots, would a carp spook off it? very unlikely.

I'm not arguing Neil, just trying to see the other side of the arguement.
 
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maggot drowner

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Both seems the logical answer I presume, I'd agree with you that carp will only be spooked by bait or badly tied rigs, I'm still old school there as I still use lesser breaking strain than main line (I do use fluoro though) as I still believe that bolt rigs have an element of danger to the fish no matter how well they are presented or put together, my way the fish will only ever have a hooklength, nothing else to tow around. I do know a few of the carpers are now using nothing but maggots and are catching the bigger carp that have not graced the banks for many a season, so your theories are spot on there too Frothey!!
 
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