Should barbed hooks be banned?

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Jeff Butler

Guest
I like to use barbless hooks for the obvious reason that they are far more 'fish friendly' than those of the barbed variety...
Can anyone give a good reason as to why we shouldn't scrap the barb. We like to think of ourselves as lovers of all things fishy so why not make 2002 that bit more 'fish friendly'.......
 
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Ron Clay

Guest
This debate is alive at the moment in Angling Star. Personally I would not like to see barbed hooks banned. Most of the time I used barbed hooks as they do result in more fish on the bank. I also know how to take a barbed hook out of a fishes mouth without hurting it. Some beginners might damage fish using barbed hooks.

I would like to see Barry Rickards contribute to this debate as he beleives that barbless hooks damage more fish than barbed.
 
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Cheese Paste

Guest
I think Keith Arthur would have an opinion here. Anyone see Tight Lines last night?

I would have thought barbless is still the way to go. Hook pentration is better and kinder and unhooking fish is so much easier.

Microbarbs are a good interim type though.
 
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Steve Burke

Guest
Many fisheries ban barbed hooks. At Wingham I have a partial ban on barbless hooks!

This is only above size 10 and only on the Coarse Lake. This is because I've found from many years of experience that barbless hooks in the larger sizes can kill perch. A number of otther perch specialists agree. This seems to be because such hooks penetrate more deeply, and perch are particularly vulnerable as they have vital organs near the surface of the throat.

I applaud anyone trying to improve fish care, but as you see the issue of barbed v barbless is not clear cut. Some also feel that barbless hooks move about more in the flesh of the fish and can thus cause more damage when a fish is being played. In fact, I gather one fishery manager goes even further than me and bans barbless hooks altogether!

Having said that, barbless hooks often cause less damage on unhooking, especially by the inexperienced. Thus the type of angler on a fishery has a bearing. For instance, Wingham is run on a syndicate basis and all the members are experienced and they're also vetted as to their attitudes.

I'm therefore against any move to bring in blanket national rules. I feel it should be a matter for each fishery manager to determine.

When it comes to my own fishing I use barbless in sizes 10 and smaller, microbarbed in anything bigger. I also use barbless when bait fishing for pike.
 
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William Spencer

Guest
i see no reason whatsoever in using barbed hooks.until two years ago i used them regularly until my local banned them.i have found the barbless gives far superior presentation over barbed hooks.as for barbed hooks meaning more fish on the bank do we assume these anglers use 2lb leads and hope fish hook themselves?if you play fish properly and keep a tight line between angler and fish then most fish should be banked.if you lose them,then it makes you concentrate and work harder next time
 
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Ashe Hurst

Guest
I use barbless hooks now as all my local waters have a ban on barbed.I also agree that for the novice angler they are much safer to use as they are easy to remove from human body parts,fish,nets and branches.
I find that i loose very few fish on barbless,even those that twist around such as eels,i play the fish with a bit more care and concentration.
On the lines of penatration,there are two sides,a barbed hook may hold well ,yet go in so deep,but then a barbless hook is ejected easier by a fish should it becom snagged or the line should snap.
would the use of a crushed barb, that forms a rounded hump be of better use?
 

Murray Rogers

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Here we go again!, shooting ourselves in the foot.
Why ban something when there is no call for it?
The thread stated, "Should Barbless Hooks Be Banned".
No.
Neither should BARBED HOOKS.
If it bothers you so much that a slight barb on a hook might be causing the fish some distress I suggest that you stop putting hooks into them full stop.
I use Barbless a lot, all my Pike fishing is carried out using Barbless, but that is through choice, most of my terminal rigs for other species have a Barbed hook/Micro Barb. Do you think that by making consessions the non anglers out there will view you in a better light?. I think not. The people you have to worry about do not give a tinkers cuss about Barbed or non Barbed hooks, they just want to abolish angling.
I say give up NOTHING, our sport goes back an awfull long time and has stood it well.
 
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Kevan Farmer

Guest
I use both barbed and barbless hooks. I would say that I slightly prefer barbless simply because of the ease of hooking and unhooking. I don't really think I have lost a great deal of fish through using a barbless hook more like my own ineptitude at the time of playing the fish. The barb was 'manufactured' into hooks in the first place when set lines were the common way of catching fish. So, in essence barbs are not strictly necessary any more - and have not been for decades. However, I don't want to see them banned, why should they be really?

Kevan
 
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Richard Drayson

Guest
Steve, some interesting stuff about perch there, but I wouldn't use barbless for perch anyway (I use lobs or minnows as bait and prefer the security of a bait holding barb). I've always associated barbless hooks more with match fishing where speed counts. That said, I have recently started using them when trotting for roach and grayling and they certainly do make unhooking easier. I'll stick with barbed hooks when targetting larger species such as chub and barbel though.
 
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Rodney Wrestt

Guest
I use both, however when using barbed versions I always squeeze the barb with a small pair of pliers till I hear it snap and the entire barb comes away leaving a small bump which helps keep the bait on even worms are no problem.
 
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Jeff Butler

Guest
In responce to you Murray Rogers. It seems as though you're the 'out for yourself, get the best that you can regardless of the cost' type who appears to not have the fishes welfare at heart at all. Or am I just judging you, like you did me?
I agree, that to be a fisherman you have to accept that you cause fish some discomfort but my thread asks if we can minimise that discomfort and stress and whether looking at the various hook types or anything else we use or do can result in this... I wonder if you've been involved in a heated dispute of this nature before as you seem to be slightly over reacting here? This is just a harmless debate not a life or death matter!
If we don't, at all, care for the fish in our lakes and rivers then 'they' loose out... Your 'give up nothing! war cry' doesn't strike me as a comment forthcoming of an angler in the 21st century, more like an old ivory hunter or something... If we don't address issues they can turn into problems.
I'm not trying to 'win over' the none angling community it's just that I care about the fish more than my catch rate,
Do you?
 
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Nigel Dalton

Guest
I don't know Murray or Jeff so have no axe to grind but also found it a bit confusing when the thread didn't carry the correct title. I think if it had have done then perhaps Jeff wouldn't have responded so forcefully.
Getting back to the real argument, we promote the sport in the way that we behave and more importantly in the way that we are perceived to be behaving by the people in this life who have nothing better to do than pick on someone who is actually doing something. It is therefore not a bad idea to think about the fish that we try and catch and look after their well being by using methods and equipment that will minimise any discomfort to our quarry. Like Murray said fishing has been around since Jesus was a lad so we have some big names behind us!!
 

Murray Rogers

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Mr. Butler. Where to start. Lets start at the beggining shall we.

You asked,"Can anyone give a good reason as to why we shouldn't scrap the barb"?.

The beggining of my reply said "Why ban something when there is no call for it".
I still stand by that statement. It's a good reason. Are you actively seeking to have barbed hooks banned?


Your next pearl of wisdom asked "We like to think of ourselves as lovers of all things fishy so why not make 2002 that bit more 'fish friendly'.....

In your last thread you said " I agree, that to be a fisherman you have to accept that you cause fish some discomfort but my thread asks if we can minimise that discomfort and stress and whether looking at the various hook types or anything else we use or do can result in this".

Your thread said nothing of the kind.

As for where you get the idea that I'm the out for himself type regardless of the cost who appears not to have the fishes welfare at heart at all, yes you are judging me, and wrongly.

Now for the good bit.

"If we don't address issues they can turn into problems. I'm not trying to 'Win over' te none angling community it's just that I care about the fish more than my catch rate, Do you?

My answer is NO.
If the answer was yes it would be hypocritical of me to carry on angling. Yes I care, but only to a degree. If you care so much Mr. Butler why do you stick hooks into them Barbless or otherwise?
 
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Warren 'Hatrick' (Wol) Gaunt

Guest
I use barbless hooks and will continue to do so. Barbless hooks in my opinion do more damage than barbed (my opinion) and if i'm fishing for longer sessions with a worm/slug/minnow, i like to know its going to stay on the bloody hook and not wriggle off. Fish welfare, na, dont agree with you on that at all, eat into the anti's hands again. Sticking a hook into a fish barbed or no barb, its still sticking a hook in a fish. Like i said, my opinions ok.
 
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Jeff Butler

Guest
Murray Rogers. I hoped that I would not have to clarify the obvious mistake that I made with the title of my thread but OK if it makes you feel better then yes I ment should barbed hooks be banned. You can, I think when reading the thread soon see that I ment that, but if you want to be picky...
I love fishing as much as the next angler and realise that I contradict myself saying I'm a 'caring angler'. However, if I can catch a fish in a way that will cause it less 'damage' then another method, why not, I would call that common sence....? Dare I get onto the subject of keepnets!
 

Murray Rogers

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Go on then Jeff give us your thoughts on keep-nets. I'll clarify my stance now. I own a keep-net and I use it on occasion. I also own Carp sacks, Pike tubes and Queenford retention sacks, all of which are at times put to use. I personally do not like rules in angling and feel that the sport could be self policing for the majority of people. There will always be an element who go beyond the unwritten laws, that is life. I do not use live fish baits when Piking, thats my choice, but would fight for the right of anglers to do so.
 
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William Spencer

Guest
ok girls calm down,or my handbag is coming out.squabbling among ourselves?you're giving the anti's ammo!!!Jeff asked for opinions and recieved a bit of a blast.if you prefer barbed fine,if you prefer barbless fine.personally i prefer barbless for better bait presentation,hook penetration and ease of removal.each to his own.opinions are like arseholes everybody has one.but none of us should be one.there are pro's and cons to both styles of hooks but respect the fact that you are all anglers and none of us should be standing off against each other.we should be standing by each other.
 
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John Pleasance

Guest
Jeff, can you explain what you mean by" cause fish some discomfort", are you referring to hooking, or removal from the water or potential stress from the whole experience or what ?
I have BTW used both barbed and barbless and will continue to do so in the situations as I see fit.
 
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andrew jackson

Guest
Barbless hooks cause less damage than barbed! How often do we hear this? Barbed hooks cause no more damage than a slight puncture wound. Bad unhooking causes the damage. These are all sweeping generalisations though. Hook size, pattern, and indeed the fish caught can all have a bairing on this. A small, lets say eighteens, straight point barbless hook, being used to catch roach, is undubtedly better than the same hook in a barbed pattern. Why? Well even if a roach is carefully unhooked, due to the relative size of the barb, and the delicate nature of their mouths, more damage is unavoidable. Look at the same pattern in say a size six, fishing for carp, and the oppisite is true. Straight point barbless carp hooks can be quite horrendous, dependant upon the brand. This is because the hook is not puncturing straight through the mouth, unlike with smaller spiecies. What happens is that the hook can literaly cut through the flesh it has embedded in untill it reaches something solid i.e. the inside of the lips. I have witnessed this first hand and belive me it is not pretty. You end up with a nasty deep long cut behind the hook. If I was a fishery owner, I would ban barbed hooks for general fishing, and conversly I would ban barbless for carp fishing. Hows that for a slightly different oppinion?
 
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Kevan Farmer

Guest
It is a great shame that this 'debate' seems to have turned into a slanging match. Come on guys, calm down this is not uk.rec.fishing - I think that is the correct newsgroup, anybody who has looked in on it will know what I mean.

Opinions were asked for and that is what has been given. We should respect each other's opinion without resorting to stupid bickering. No one persons opinion is more valid than the other. There are known to be pro's and con's for both barbed and barbless hooks. That's the nature of hooks.

Oh, as for worms on barbless hooks, a sliver of rubber band will help to stop them coming off. Again, I've used, and will continue using both barbed and barbless.

Kevan
 
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