Barrie Rickards? Angling ? Politicians.......

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Maggot

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A great well balanced view from Dr. Barrie Rickards.
His observations on the Closed Season debate is absolutely correct I look forward to his piece on the subject.
NB. I still enjoy reading 'Fishing for Big Pike - Rickards & Webb' most years.
:eek:)
 
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Wolfman Woody

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From Barrie's article - "the frequency with which those in favour of a Close Season heap personal abuse on those opposed to it."

He states that this is over the last couple of years. WRONG! Over the past 7 years I have been called "...a fool.." by Fred Crouch no less, and Stewart Allum said of me "I find it sad that Jeff needs science to justify a simple act of decency." Another quote (I can't lay my hands on it unfortunately) called me "an idiot", but the person has since passed away so best if he's left in peace.

It's a fact that when you have no factual arguments to promulgate then the best course is to insult. Throw enough muck and some is bound to stick, as the old saying goes.
 
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john conway

Guest
I agree with Maggot a good well balanced opinion. Like Barrie when I suggested, on a recent forum thread, that I?d not as yet seen any convincing scientific arguments for keeping the close season I was amassed at the personal abuse heaped on those who opposed it?
 
Peter Jacobs

Peter Jacobs

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Lets not get carried away . . . . ..

Both sides of the debate have been equally guilty of indiscriminately hurling insults.

As for a balanced view?
Well, considering DT's failed attempt at having people fish through the closed season using large hooks (ostensibly) for eels, and if you catch a few Chub then so what - I don't find that particulalry 'respectful' of the fish that Barrie considers are DT's stock in trade.
 
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Maggot

Guest
Yes but the point that I think is being made is that a debate should not be clouded by verbal abuse about anyone (even if you dont like the person or what he says); but it should include logical argument that tries to convince people that your argument is correct. This means stating your reasoning together with any proof of what you believe. and not personal abuse as is generally the case. What has happened to the art of discussion these days??.
:eek:)
 
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MarkTheSpark

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It's too late this year, but next March I promise I shall write the definitive piece, for Fishingmagic.com, on all questions to do with the Close Season

But surely if you write it, Barry, it will merely be your view of the situation and no more objective than anyone else's?

I would love to see <u>all</u> the science amassed in one article but is there enough server space on FM? You'll have to be selective, surely? I remain sceptical, but I look forward to seeing it.
 
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Ray Daywalker Clarke

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NO CLOSE SEASON.

Its gone on 90% of still waters its time it went 100% on all waters. Still and Running.

And if anyone want's to abuse me bring it on, cos you had better be ready for some abuse back.

I never wanted the close season to change, it did i moved with the times after a few years, its time the others moved on also.
 
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Wolfman Woody

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It's true Mark, it would be Barrie's view, but based on his observations and his own research over many years and that is no less valid scientific proof than what marine biologists could otherwise offer.

Why?

Because it is impossible to establish any real scientific evidence without removing the close season from, at least, some waters so that the theories could be tested over a period. Since the EA is not prepared to lift a complete ban on fishing river, no hard evidence can therefore be collected. It's a real Catch 22 situation or what is better know in industry as the "railroad technique".
 
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MarkTheSpark

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You know what I think, Jeff. The moment it started it was the end of decency, the end of patience, it was the advent of the must-have-everything-now generation that Thatcher, shrewd old bag, was smart enough to know we'd be too greedy to turn down.
 
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Ray Daywalker Clarke

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Woody,

I am with you, one thing, you can not lift a close season on some waters to obtain evidence. What happens on one river might not happen on another.

Mark,
Its not greed is getting what we pay for, dont forget if it wasnt for anglers our rivers would have been dead years ago, not the NRA or the EA us anglers.
 
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MarkTheSpark

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Its not greed is getting what we pay for, dont forget if it wasnt for anglers our rivers would have been dead years ago, not the NRA or the EA us anglers

Since I didn't ask for it I don't see why I should pay for it. And what we have done for rivers I can't deny, but it doesn't mean we can, as a result, do anything we bl**dy well like.
 
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Wolfman Woody

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It's not a question of "do anything we bl**dy well like", it's a matter of making it better IF it needs to be. The close season is not perfect, we are all agred on that and in some cases it's a downright waste of time.

If you don't keep moving and changing the law you might as well say that everything for evermore stays as it is. The status quo. That means no more changes in the law AT ALL.

None of this "No Smoking" law in bars and public places. Let people smoke where they like. That's how it is now and has been so why change it?

No changes to how the law should treat murderers who have been found not guilty through insuffucient evidence. Instead we change the law so they can be brought back for a second trial with newer evidence.

Just two examples of changes that have been made recently, but wouldn't have been under the "LEAVE IT AS IT IS" notion.
 
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Wolfman Woody

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But we can change it.

I would be far happier if our stretch of river was closed for the entire months of April, May and June opening on the 1st July - for bait fishing! It should be open from May 1st for spinning and deadbaiting for pike and closed to spinning on the 1st February.

Saying that, a lake we have that is extremely popular through the present close season enjoys incredible recruitment proving that on this venue, a close season is a waste of time.

It will be gone anyway within the next two years. You want a bet?
 
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MarkTheSpark

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We CAN change it, but better still, we can make sure it doesn't happen on rivers.

You know, when this argument surfaces (about once a month) I always get accused of being a sentimentalist (guilty as charged) and not having one scientific fact to back my argument (guilty as charged.)

I've never argued for the closed season on those platforms. I've been through 25-odd closed seasons in my lifetime, and what I remember best is the sense of occasion when the season opened - the anticipation, the planning, all the things I enjoyed about it.

So I what I want is for everyone to enjoy the same things I love, I want some fun in fishing, and there's nothing wrong with a bit of self-denial every now and then. It enhances the pleasure and creates a sense of occasion.

I have absolutely no time for anyone with the 'move on' argument. It's facile, lazy, lame and meaningless. You don't like something, you complain. Nobody listens, you demonstrate. Protest IS civilisation.
 
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john conway

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Mark, I don't have any arguments about what you like about the close season, but you can still enjoy all that even if there isn't a close season. Like the on/off switch on the tele you don't have to watch the programs you don't like. The only problem I have with your likes about having a close season is you want to force me to like what you like. I did set off and type all the you's in capitals but then thought that was probably a bit naughty and I'd be guilty of just shouting to make a point.
 
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Ray Daywalker Clarke

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Mark,

You talk some b-ll--ks.

What's the difference between a close season on a river and one on still waters, or all year fishing on rivers and still waters???.

NONE.

No time for the move on argument, you mean people who get straight to the point.

You are a hypocrit, fish lakes with no close season thats ok, but to fish a river with no close season, NO. what the water and fish magic or different.

Then theres all those who go to ireland and fish the rivers but say no here. Move on move on, move on you did with the still waters.
If the close season goes on rivers you dont have to fish,(but i bet you do) so you still get your 16th June,
 
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Peter Rolfe

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Barrie, I was always under the impression that eels did migrate back to the spawning grounds on maturity, which is why one of our lakes here had an old eel trap on it. Is this now in doubt, then?
 
M

Maggot

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If the law is changed and the closed season on rivers is abolished; then members could still vote to decide whether the majority of members want to have a closed season on some (or all) of their running waters or not.
This is what currently happens on some still waters.

I fish one club where they still have a closed season on still waters between April 1st and June 1st and another club that allows still water fishing all year round on all waters except one.
so if you are against closed season fishing (whether its on still or running waters) you should voice your concerns and if you are out voted then abide with the majority (you can always try and convince people again next year).

If you think there are valid reasons for the closed season ie. you want to give the fishery a rest each year to allow bankside vegetation to re-establish itself, or you think the fish need a stress free period, or just because you want one; then voice your concerns at the AGM. But don't impose the closed season for the wrong reasons.
In my opinion there are some rivers that do benefit from a closed season and there are other rivers where I believe that it would not make any difference if fishing is allowed all year or not.
Roll on end of the forced close season on rivers when clubs can decide themselves.
 
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