EA or angling celebrities...

jasonbean1

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I think this as already come up on FM already

Thames Rivers Restoration Trust - Progress report for the Fobney Island river and wetland project

is ther any anglers/clubs involved with this and are the EA doing what they say they are doing?...graham scholey, doing good for fisheries other than destroying them?. the lovely lizzie rhymes from the fisheries who i have come across in the past and she has dirtied her hands in my local murky cherwell...

come on give them some credit...probably more deserved to go to them than our own leading celebrities!.....:w
 

cg74

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Jason, Jason, Jason, whilst I wholly agree angling needs to be doing more to help its interests. It has been well established 'angling celebs' are only 'names' within our sport.

I wonder how long before the river Lambourne (looking glorious) shown here, runs dry: Thames Rivers Restoration Trust - Strategy
(Or has Graham Scholey struck a deal with Thames Water, if they leave that river's water table well alone, he'll ignore the Kennet running dry??)

All this demonstrates is the EA really are a publicity seeking set of to$$ers, take the Otmoor wetlands project, how did the EA deal with the issue of the river Ray pollution, clean the river???

Errr, no, they re-routed the bloody river!!


Money talks and if you can sucker in a few thousand dog walkers, its money well spent!
 
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Paul Boote

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But then those "dog-walkers" aren't there on riverbanks for the million pound-quality fishing that we seem to expect and demand after paying a mere twenty-seven quid plus a club ticket. If we want top-rate rivers, then everything and everybody has to change: us and all our building and car-washing and domestic water consumption; farmers and their farming practices (fertilizers, dips, valley and upland ploughing, and unquenchable thirst for irrigation), industry............

So easy to hit the internet to whinge and whine and point the impotent finger.


PS - For you Windrush Boys. For three years in the 1990s I had one of the largest landowners, farmers and property owners (as in both sides of the High Street of a certain town) in the Windrush Valley fish with me for sea-trout in Southern Argentina. Big money, phenomenal fishing that I had spent many months scouting and pioneering, much partying into the night on getting back to the farmhouse of local landowner friends of mine after leaving the river.

A lot of hard drinking done (but not by me - my one glass of excellent Quilmes beer to their several treble-shot Vodka Martinis).

Which duly led to a lot of loose (between the likes of us) talk.

"Our river [the Windrush], Paul? It's shot ... finished ... very sad ... but then what can you do....?"
 
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jasonbean1

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Jason, Jason, Jason, whilst I wholly agree angling needs to be doing more to help its interests. It has been well established 'angling celebs' are only 'names' within our sport.

I wonder how long before the river Lambourne (looking glorious) shown here, runs dry: Thames Rivers Restoration Trust - Strategy
(Or has Graham Scholey struck a deal with Thames Water, if they leave that river's water table well alone, he'll ignore the Kennet running dry??)

All this demonstrates is the EA really are a publicity seeking set of to$$ers, take the Otmoor wetlands project, how did the EA deal with the issue of the river Ray pollution, clean the river???

Errr, no, they re-routed the bloody river!!


Money talks and if you can sucker in a few thousand dog walkers, its money well spent!

your a miserable old t**>!.....so in the world of colin they are all tossers?

words of wisdom then...is there any point in doing anything, worst than bob roberts you!
 

syhaze

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coincidentally i happen to bailiff this particular part of the kennet for the association that controls it (Reading & District). the plans sounded horrendous at first : putting in a meander, fish refuge and riffles...plus all the bird watching stuff and nature reserve what have you. a lot of the venue regulars were pretty concerned (myself included) for the fishing post works.

the work was completed end of november but the venue remains shut as the bankside vegetation has been decimated and as a club we deemed it unsafe to allow the venue to open again. it'll be opening up again once nature has been allowed to take it's course and greened the banks a little.

the actual work that was done didn't feature the much talked about meander, and from what i've seen on my walks since they finished it, they've done a good job. this particular stretch had become quite badly silted up over the years and they re-established quite a few of the gravel runs during the works, which can only be a good thing.

on the consultation front, the association was involved in the discussions from start to finish...no real say over what happened, but concerns were freely listened to and some contentious issues taken on board.

as for how it's affected the fishing, we'll have to see when the venue re-opens. i'll be really intrigued to see how much the nature reserve pulls in people though.
 

cg74

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your a miserable old t**>!.....so in the world of colin they are all tossers?

words of wisdom then...is there any point in doing anything, worst than bob roberts you!

Jason, I know I'm a misery guts and happy as such but lets clear the (red) mist... I never said "all" EA staff are tossers, it wasn't even implied, hence the usage of "set" which was meant as the top set; i.e upper management.
And in my not so diplomatic fashion, I stick to that!

So tell me:
Why was the river Ray re-routed and not cleaned up?
Why was the Kennet left to run dry and the EA's fellow Quango British Waterways not forced to close the Kennet and Avon canal sooner?
Why are BW not being forced to limit their water abstraction from the Cherwell?
Using PB's example; why is gravel abstraction not stopped in the Windrush Valley?
So if the re-instatement of otters and a couple of other very limited environmental projects aren't pure publicity guff, please tell what they are.
 

jasonbean1

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recently in threads i've started it seems i have a problem with well known anglers, well i do..nothing personal as i dont know them but on the way they lead and inform us average joe bloggs in the angling world.

the likes of bob, john, martin and danny should be showing us the way forward along with the press, what good do they do other than stoke the fires of false revolution?

colin, you are well aware... living on and fishing the cherwell valley that there is only one way of helping and that is through fishing club structure, upper thames fisheries consultative and direct talks with local officers. you talk to them about your little bit, argue with them, help them and eventually work with them to get things done. they might only be little things or guff to you but it's the only way to get things to happen.

remember bfw a few years back with all the cherwell moaners and the otters had them all brigade?...where are they now and what good did they do?

i might live in the clouds but the way i see it is that unless you work with the people who can help you'll get knowhere.

now bob i'll bring you back into this reluctantly on your part...you have wrote a good piece on your blog about the 10 threats to angling, but not once have you given anglers a way forward of understanding them or addressing them locally...bob i think your a bit more than a sound bite celeb angler..point a few of us on the way forward.

the water frame work directive as been one of the least discussed things in angling, it should be one of the most...all clubs, societies, consultatives and anglers should be pushing there local ea guys to listern to them and act on there obligations...which they now have to meet.

the work on the Kennet may only be small, just like the cherwell...sticking plasters and all that, on little bits of long river...it's a start and it's about time celebs, clubs, societies and induvidual anglers use the system that the ea have put in place...almost forgot join the AT.

shot to bits me:)

---------- Post added at 13:05 ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 ----------

coincidentally i happen to bailiff this particular part of the kennet for the association that controls it (Reading & District). the plans sounded horrendous at first : putting in a meander, fish refuge and riffles...plus all the bird watching stuff and nature reserve what have you. a lot of the venue regulars were pretty concerned (myself included) for the fishing post works.

the work was completed end of november but the venue remains shut as the bankside vegetation has been decimated and as a club we deemed it unsafe to allow the venue to open again. it'll be opening up again once nature has been allowed to take it's course and greened the banks a little.

the actual work that was done didn't feature the much talked about meander, and from what i've seen on my walks since they finished it, they've done a good job. this particular stretch had become quite badly silted up over the years and they re-established quite a few of the gravel runs during the works, which can only be a good thing.

on the consultation front, the association was involved in the discussions from start to finish...no real say over what happened, but concerns were freely listened to and some contentious issues taken on board.

as for how it's affected the fishing, we'll have to see when the venue re-opens. i'll be really intrigued to see how much the nature reserve pulls in people though.

i think you have to realise nowadays that the more people around your river the more fish you'll have...better having bird watchers and dog walkers than over zelous specy hunters

be good to know what affects it's had on the river next year
 
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cg74

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Jason, you know I am in agreement with you, right upto the point where the EA's duty of care kicks in. I'm well aware that money IS the overriding concern on all matters in this country, environmental or otherwise but look at the evidence. How many jobs are dependant on the Oxford canal having most of the rivers water, same goes for the Kennet and Avon canal.
Or look at it another way; what were Boddington and Clattercote reservoirs actually dug for; easy, to supply the Oxford canal with water. So how much revenue do they generate locally, I'd say not very much?

So have the EA not overlooked its duty of care of a natural resource in its handling of the Cherwell over the last three decades, I'm not asking in relation to the river as a fishery but as a whole ecosystem.
And for what; it appears to me that its mainly to help out another government Quango, under the same umbrella cover of DEFRA; British Waterways.

This in face of undeniable evidence (much accumilated by the EA) of the rivers failings. Begs the question why:
Why did they carry out endless fish censuses?
Why do they spend money on water metering stations?
Just to sit back and do nothing!!

Forgive my cynicism but why was the river left to get into this state?
Oh and how many others as well...
 
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Bob Roberts

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now bob i'll bring you back into this reluctantly on your part...you have wrote a good piece on your blog about the 10 threats to angling, but not once have you given anglers a way forward of understanding them or addressing them locally...bob i think your a bit more than a sound bite celeb angler..point a few of us on the way forward.

I'm flattered that you think I might have the answer to all angling's ills but that's perhaps because you probably think we breathe a different kind of air to you.

For the record I worked full-time from leaving school for 42 years without a break. My fishing had to be done using holidays and weekends but that could only be in between the time spent writing, making DVDs and doing a bit of telly, etc.

The way forward for anglers and angling is through unity and in supporting the Trust. Only a fraction of one per cent of anglers are members. The rest take a free ride on their backs.

You expect folk who appear in the angling media because they're better than most at catching fish to represent you in political circles, to debates with paid professionals and media consultants, scientists and naturalists. That ain't never going to work.

We anglers need full-time media savvy spokesmen to work on our behalf, to influence politicians and the wider media. A bankside gypsy ain't going to fulfil that role, now is he?

Check the poll on here about otters. It is weighted in favour of leave them alone! Talk about sticking their heads in the sand. You've seen the otter population explosion in the past decade and the damage they do, now roll forward another ten years...

We cull deer (bambi), we cull rabbits (Watership Down, Thumper, Bugs Bunny), we cull badgers (Wind in the Willows). Farmers shoot pet dogs if they're not controlled. The idea that culling otters will be bad for our image and bring angling to its knees is preposterous.

At the current rate we won't have any fish to worry about in 20 years time other than those in commercial pools. You cannot protect a river unless you remove or diminish the threat.

River authorities have wrecked the environment with their drainage schemes afecting millions of fish, birds and animals. The public doesn't give a toss!

But unless anglers unite they are doomed. It is to angling's eternal shame that we don't have one million members of the Angling Trust. We never will have and as a result we will never be able to effectively defend ourselves or take suitable action. You want the answer? There it is in a nutshell.

Unite and fight or roll over and take up golf.

And just remember, 99% of folk in this country have never seen an otter and never will. It doesn't really matter to them whether they exist or not.

Bob Roberts
Bob Roberts - Fishing information for the complete angler

Footnote: The article refered to is called Ten Key Issues That Threaten Angling
 

Paul Boote

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now bob i'll bring you back into this reluctantly on your part...you have wrote a good piece on your blog about the 10 threats to angling, but not once have you given anglers a way forward of understanding them or addressing them locally...bob i think your a bit more than a sound bite celeb angler..point a few of us on the way forward.

I'm flattered that you think I might have the answer to all angling's ills but that's perhaps because you probably think we breathe a different kind of air to you.

For the record I worked full-time from leaving school for 42 years without a break. My fishing had to be done using holidays and weekends but that could only be in between the time spent writing, making DVDs and doing a bit of telly, etc.

The way forward for anglers and angling is through unity and in supporting the Trust. Only a fraction of one per cent of anglers are members. The rest take a free ride on their backs.

You expect folk who appear in the angling media because they're better than most at catching fish to represent you in political circles, to debates with paid professionals and media consultants, scientists and naturalists. That ain't never going to work.

We anglers need full-time media savvy spokesmen to work on our behalf, to influence politicians and the wider media. A bankside gypsy ain't going to fulfil that role, now is he?

Check the poll on here about otters. It is weighted in favour of leave them alone! Talk about sticking their heads in the sand. You've seen the otter population explosion in the past decade and the damage they do, now roll forward another ten years...

We cull deer (bambi), we cull rabbits (Watership Down, Thumper, Bugs Bunny), we cull badgers (Wind in the Willows). Farmers shoot pet dogs if they're not controlled. The idea that culling otters will be bad for our image and bring angling to its knees is preposterous.

At the current rate we won't have any fish to worry about in 20 years time other than those in commercial pools. You cannot protect a river unless you remove or diminish the threat.

River authorities have wrecked the environment with their drainage schemes afecting millions of fish, birds and animals. The public doesn't give a toss!

But unless anglers unite they are doomed. It is to angling's eternal shame that we don't have one million members of the Angling Trust. We never will have and as a result we will never be able to effectively defend ourselves or take suitable action. You want the answer? There it is in a nutshell.

Unite and fight or roll over and take up golf.

And just remember, 99% of folk in this country have never seen an otter and never will. It doesn't really matter to them whether they exist or not.

Bob Roberts
Bob Roberts - Fishing information for the complete angler

Footnote: The article refered to is called Ten Key Issues That Threaten Angling



Sorry, Bob, but if the above had come from anybody else, I'd be calling it (as I am now) "The naive, in-yer-face confrontational, very likely ultimately dangerous, arrogant ranting of a self-pitying out-of-touch troll...".

But as it is you...
 
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Bluenose

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Check the poll on here about otters. It is weighted in favour of leave them alone! Talk about sticking their heads in the sand. You've seen the otter population explosion in the past decade and the damage they do, now roll forward another ten years...

Bob, I would argue that given 10 years, if they (otters) are left alone, then a predator prey balance would be reached. Where there is ample food, there may well be a healthy otter population, and where there are few fish, the otter will struggle. That's not head in sand, just a basic relationship between predators and prey in all environments.
 

Bob Roberts

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Sometimes I do feel sorry for Mr Boote..., but it soon passes.

Bluenose, I like your logic. When the fish have all gone and they've run out of waterfowl and voles, the otter will die out...? What a paradise that will be then!

cg74, err, no. Bit like asking what's the most important part of a bicycle, the front wheel or the chain. Each relies on the other to a greater or lesser extent.

Next...!
 

Bluenose

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Bluenose, I like your logic. When the fish have all gone and they've run out of waterfowl and voles, the otter will die out...? What a paradise that will be then!

That's not my logic Bob, it's what happens in real life. Whilst the prey fish are in decent numbers otters will thrive just like any other predator. Then in future years the prey fish numbers will drop due to the increased otter numbers. Otters will turn to other food sources and if those sources are not sufficient, sometime after the otter population will drop. Then once the otter population drops the prey fish numbers will increase again and the cycle will start again.

It's a typical pred prey relationship, simplified yes, and open to other factors, yes, but that's the pattern!
 

dangermouse

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Bluenose, I like your logic. When the fish have all gone and they've run out of waterfowl and voles, the otter will die out...? What a paradise that will be then!

Really? And yet otters have lived here for thousands of years and never wiped out fish stocks. The simple fact they`re terratorial means that their population will never reach a density where their available foodsource will be wiped out.

I`m kind of tired of this argument especially when it comes from anglers who with one sentence wax lyrical about the beauty of the natural world they feel privileged to see whilst fishing. And then with the next sentence they want to kill something that`s perfectly natural to that very environment. There`s a word for that . . .
 

sam vimes

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Bob,
how did the filming on the Swale go? You know, the river that's had a resident otter population as long as I've been alive (and presumably long time before).;):p

Before you get it into your head that I'm firmly against you in this, I'm not. Neither am I firmly behind you. I believe that there are big issues on some rivers where populations have gone from zero to x with the introduction of captive bred animals. I'm not convinced that rivers that had a pre-existing population, like the Swale, have such a big problem. Unfortunately for them, it's the local stillwaters that seem to have a big problem in the Swale catchment area. My supposition is that the pre-existing population has pushed out incomers and their own progeny into new territory. As the river is well enough covered, this has meant going overland to other rivers (Tees/Ure etc) and any stillwater that they happen to encounter.
 

cg74

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cg74, err, no. Bit like asking what's the most important part of a bicycle, the front wheel or the chain. Each relies on the other to a greater or lesser extent.

Next...!

Bob, going with your bike analogy; surely the prerequisite for a bicycle is two wheels, hence its name bicycle and not unicycle or tricycle.
Same as our indigenous fish without water; they are no more! And on seeing parts of the Kennet, Windrush, Wey and Teme this year, I'd say abstraction/poor water resource management far outweigh predation of any type as a threat to our rivers.


Bluenose, I like your logic. When the fish have all gone and they've run out of waterfowl and voles, the otter will die out...? What a paradise that will be then!

Its quite simple, no water, no fish, waterfowl, vole or otter; end of!

An apocalyptic and over exaggerated view; well no look at the evidence.... Yet your first port of call seems to be the otter?!!:confused:

It's a typical pred prey relationship, simplified yes, and open to other factors, yes, but that's the pattern!

Seems perfectly plausible to me but I guess I'm suffering from Ostrich sydrome, along with everyone else that doubts Bob's wisdom.
 
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