The Great Carp Myth.......

Up to about 1950, carp in England were classified as being almost uncatchable and that it wasn't even worth spending time trying to catch them.

To a certain extent this was true, but I don't think they were difficult due to the basic nature of the species; rather it was a result or there being so few of them.

That ikon of early carp fishing - Mapperley Reservoir, held the record for several years prior to Bob Richards catching his 30 pounder from Redmire. Albert Buckley's feat in landing a 26 lb carp on 31/2 lb line was revered by many. In truth the fish was probably suffering from dropsy and his line was close to 8 lbs bs. And there were so few fish in there at the time. I know this as two old friends of mine, both in the Northern Specimen Group, spent many days and nights in search of a Mapperley fish, and they caught nothing.

Then Bob Richards, cast out a lump of breadpaste to a spot where the owner of a lake at Bernithan Court in Herefordshire used to feed the ducks, and a 31 lb carp grabbed the bait. For a short period after this capture, Bernithan Court, renamed Redmire, gave up a number of fish quite easily, culminating in Walker's 44 pounder. After that, Redmire fish became very difficult to catch, due I think to the fact that there were so few of them,(quite a few were removed to be stuffed) and that they had been educated not to eat bread. Of of the 50 original stocking, I doubt if by 1960, there were 20 fish left.

When I started fishing the huge waters of South Africa, and after I had learned to catch the carp, I realised that carp were not all that difficult to catch. In fact the difficulty in targeting the big fish was made all the more apparent by the fact that you had to wade through hundreds of small fish first. I forget the exact numbers taken, but certainly at times, a weekends fishing would result in the capture of anything between 20 and 100 fish.

And today, the heavily stocked commercial fisheries of this country often produce individual match catches of up to 500 lbs of fish.

Certainly carp are not all that difficult to catch, are they?

Or perhaps our methods have become more effective.

But what do you think? Is the idea that carp are difficult to catch a complete myth? I think it is!

Depends entirely on stocking densities and angling pressure. The most dopey mug fish will be damned hard to catch if it's one of a handful in a big water. Likewise, a well stocked big fish water that's hammered can also see the inabitants become very hard to catch.

I don't know but wasn't it innovations like hair rigging that made the difference ie a presentation which suited their way of feeding

I was going to blindly say "It depends on stocking densities" but then I thought of angling pressure as well and then I think "well commercials are heavily pressured and yet they still produce."

Then of course there are the so called ultra difficult gravel pits which contain one carp for every 4356927674679 acres, now is that difficulty down to location or the often considerable angling pressure?

Good question Ronald!

IMO Successful big carp fishing is about understanding the fish and its environment, NOT the latest bait or 'rig of the moment'
Jerry
PS I believe Bob Richards was one of the first to fish Redmire and was pretty much a novice angler who was snapped up many times before gaffing the big one. Therefore they probably weren't difficult to hook in the early days.

barbelboi said:

Therefore they probably weren't difficult to hook in the early days

Click to expand...

Well there was this notion that carp would only bite on the finest tackle, and then the big fish would make good their escape by breaking you.

Ron The Hat Clay said:

Well there was this notion that carp would only bite on the finest tackle, and then the big fish would make good their escape by breaking you.

Click to expand...

Hence my first sentence IMO Successful big carp fishing is about understanding the fish and its environment
Jerry

barbelboi said:

PS I believe Bob Richards was one of the first to fish Redmire and was pretty much a novice angler who was snapped up many times before gaffing the big one. Therefore they probably weren't difficult to hook in the early days.
__________________

Click to expand...

Bob Richards was certainly the first to fish deliberately for the carp at Redmire. His tackle was hopelessly inadequate and landing his 30 pounder was subject to a great deal of luck, if not the fish was probably not in first class condition.

Redmire was of course fished quite often when it was a stocked trout water. The carp were put in on recommendation by Leney to try and keep the weed down.

One interesting aspect of Redmire was that in later years, a handful of known carp kept being caught on the regular basis. The fish known as "The Bishop" for instance that was caught by Tom Mintram, Jack Hilton, Roger Bowskill and finally at 51lb 8oz by Chris Yates as a new disputed English record.

One has only to look at the photographs of "The Bishop" to note that the fish was in a shocking state of health, which proved to be true when the poor thing died some weeks after Chris Yates had caught it.

And Chris Yates 43 3/4 lb common carp was a proper pudding of a fish. Again I think something ailed it.

Dropsy?

But anglers such as Rod Hutchinson took Redmire apart. What had become an almost impossible water became a doddle to who I believe is one of the greatest thinking carp anglers of all time.

In addition to a few South Africans I have met along the way.

It was a myth of course Ron, in the early days many believed that carp could only be caught on light tackle, well light lines certainly. I believe a number of factors lead the anglers of the day to believe this, one was low stocking densities the other of course was the very nature of carp themselves, the myth of course was put to rest as more people became interested in the specie from the late 50s and certainly by the late 60s, throughout the 70s the number of carp anglers was growing rapidly and by the late seventies the bolt rig and hair rig came into being and thus momentum in the growth of the sport eccelerated chaging it beyond recognition forever. The carp fishing of today is certainly not the same sport of the 60s when I started carp fishing, in those days we were more hunters, bolt rigging has seen the rise of the trapper. You have a lot to answer for Mr Clay, lol

And the anglers of the North West were probably the first to incorporate the long range light tackle concept using sweetcorn that had been developed in South Africa. In addition to yourself, anglers such as Chris Tabbron and others in The Manchester Carp Group began smashing old notions about the difficulty of the carp.

Remember Crab Mill Flash, and Big Moor, and Foden's Flash?

And my old mate Steve Crawshaw caught a few very big fish, in addition to guys like Steve Kennerley, Alan Southern. Ray Brown and one: Graham Marsden of course.

I am looking at a picture now of one of Steve Crawshaw's 20 pound fish. In those days a 20 pounder was the fish of a lifetime.

Commericals skew the question as the fish are forced to eat bait. As far a big carp go

It's a complete myth that carp are hard to catch. Without a shadow of doubt the bolt-rig combined with the hair completely changed carp fishing. Almost over night rigs became alot more effective and a hell of alot more carp got caught as a result. The whole technique of catching big carp as massively moved forward and become alot more effective, it's just not stock densitys that have made carp easier to catch.

Having said that a knowledge of enviroment and watercraft is still going to be the biggest factor in a sucessful angler but if Richard walker had modern day tackle, techniques and bait I honestly believe he would of caught more fish.


The myth that carp are difficult to catch is an advantage to the whole carp fishing industry and thats why it's still around.

mol said:

The myth that carp are difficult to catch is an advantage to the whole carp fishing industry and thats why it's still around.

Click to expand...

Now that is a most interesting statement. I tend to agree. This is what makes hundreds of thousands of carp angers spend millions of pounds on items of tackle and bait that they probably do not need.

The hardest part about catching the huge fish is locating a water where they exist, and then getting your bait through the myriads of smaller fish.

Ron The Hat Clay said:

The hardest part about catching the huge fish is locating a water where they exist, and then getting your bait through the myriads of smaller fish.

Click to expand...

In the main I,ll agree with whats quoted above but It,s a fact that many carp anglers going onto a "new" water for the first time take the one thats on all the regulars "hit list". I've done it myself on two differant waters that I can think of.
I put it down to the fact that most will be using the going bait and perhaps method that is on the way to blowing when up turns a newbie on the water with a new bait and maybe approach and bingo-- its in the bag.

i fish a small water that contains 6 carp,they get angled for 365 days of the year unless the lake has a lid on,of the 6 carp that reside there 2 of them haven't been caught in over 5 years,the other 4 usually come out once a year at the most,usually during silly season[april-may]the lakes jewel and largest resident is a common of epic proportions,long,muscular and black,last caught in 2005 its possible to get up close to this fish on a regular basis as he tends to live in some sunken trees,when up close to the oak common you can almost see him thinking,i dare any man to sit in them snags and call him stupid!

I think the difficulty of catching the humungously large carp is (a) finding a water where they exist (easier these days with the internet/forums etc) and (b) having the time to wait for them to find your bait (2-3 day sessions seem quite normal for a single bite) and (c) using a bait they will take..this usually need a secret ingredient and brand label from what i read about it. Obviously you then have to land the thing, after which a decent set of scales and an unhooking mat may be required.

Ron The Hat Clay said:

Now that is a most interesting statement. I tend to agree. This is what makes hundreds of thousands of carp angers spend millions of pounds on items of tackle and bait that they probably do not need.

The hardest part about catching the huge fish is locating a water where they exist, and then getting your bait through the myriads of smaller fish.

Click to expand...

Bit of a crass statement, Ron?

There are densely stocked waters with big fish in them.

There are low-density waters with big fish...........

The "difficulty" factor depends on pressure over time and affects venues and individual fish in different ways.

The Yateley Car Park Lake?
Small venue, low stock, big known fish. Hard and riggy. Heavy pressure.
Langridge Lake. Huge venue, low stock, relatively unknown but big fish, hard, but not riggy. Unpressured.

The biggest difficulty is in getting anglers to talk in terms of specifics, rather than sweeping generalities. :wh

Ron The Hat Clay said:

Remember Crab Mill Flash, and Big Moor, and Foden's Flash?

Click to expand...

"Proper" carp waters and proper carp fishing, you missed off the best in my view of that little group there Ron, Moston Flash, unless your calling it Foden's flash, which was acually a smaller water better known as the Moat.

I was on Moston flash yesterday giving my old early 1970's carp gear a run out, and yesterday somebody sent me copies of Donald leneys stocking invoices for both clubs(Elworth and Wheelock) 1950's stockings for those waters.

Small world.

Best wishes,

Billy

billy whizz said:

Proper" carp waters and proper carp fishing, you missed off the best in my view of that little group there Ron, Moston Flash, unless your calling it Foden's flash, which was acually a smaller water better known as the Moat.

I was on Moston flash yesterday giving my old early 1970's carp gear a run out, and yesterday somebody sent me copies of Donald leneys stocking invoices for both clubs(Elworth and Wheelock) 1950's stockings for those waters.

Small world.

Best wishes,

Billy

Click to expand...

Fascinating stuff Billy. You should contact The Monk who also knew all those waters. Yours is the sort of response I was hoping for.