Traditional Angler

dezza · Feb 27, 2012

Define what you think a traditional angler is?

Is he a tweed/Norfolk jacket and breeks dressed idiot with an ancient cane and lancewood rod, bird quill float and a pack of pith and brains. Does he spend hours rendering down old pigs and sheeps carcases to get chandlers greaves and scratchings.

Or does he insist on using out of date fixed spool Mitchells.

Does he hit the roof when he sees anglers being sponsored, or a plethora of advertising in magazines, even when there were often up to 60 seperate adverts, plus another 50 classifieds in the magazines and books of the late Victorian era.

And sponsorship was all the rage then.

And when you tell him all this, having found out that your self styled traditionalist has never even read Compleat Angler, or even books by Martin, Bailey or Coxon et al, AND when you find out that you are 12 years older than he, he calls you a liar. And then he tries to tell you how wonderful the fishing was in the 20s.

I have met people like this, have you?

peter crabtree · Feb 27, 2012

I have met people like this, have you?

No, to be honest...

beerweasel · Feb 27, 2012

The only person I can think of who fits this description is Mr Yates.
I think the term Traditional Angler is a state of mind more than anything.
I regard myself as one, never used Boilies,Bivvys,Spods,Pods,Alarms,Poles or those f*****g clear floats.
I do use carbon though. :w

S-Kippy · Feb 27, 2012

Not that extreme,no. I dont honestly think such people exist despite what they might have you believe.

And it depends what you mean by "traditional"..do you mean someone who uses traditional tackle or someone who employs traditional methods...or both ? I have traditionalist tendencies in that I much prefer to float fish whenever I can...and use a pin whenever I can too. I dont own a pole or a carp rod. Does that make me a traditional angler ?

I have flirted with cane but TBH deep down it doesn't really do it for me. No problem with those that like using it though...or those that want to use a 300. Just dont tell me its better than a modern reel on a carbon rod. You might enjoy using that sort of gear more & good luck to you but better ? Never.

Jeff Woodhouse · Feb 27, 2012

S-Kippy said:
Does that make me a traditional angler ?

NO!

beerweasel said:
I regard myself as one, never used Boilies,Bivvys,Spods,Pods,Alarms,Poles or those f*****g clear floats.

Nor are you.

Anyone setting themselves up as a 'traditional-ist' angler is just asking to be a fishing snob, IMO, it's what they want you to think - they are better than you. You may use tactics and methods that have been around since fishing took off, but you employ them as modern methods that have evolved ever so slightly. But a traditionalist, no, never put yourself in that category.

beerweasel · Feb 27, 2012

Jeff Woodhouse said:
NO!Nor are you.

Anyone setting themselves up as a 'traditional-ist' angler is just asking to be a fishing snob, IMO, it's what they want you to think - they are better than you. You may use tactics and methods that have been around since fishing took off, but you employ them as modern methods that have evolved ever so slightly. But a traditionalist, no, never put yourself in that category.

So what's a Trad then Jeff ?
Isaac Walton smock ? Horse hair line ?

redfin123 · Feb 27, 2012

I think a traditional angler is a man who minds his own busyness and fishes with what ever he chooses and is comfortable with, whether it be mitchell reels or what ever. mitchell reels are not for me but thats my choice. live and let live and long may we enjoy it.

dezza · Feb 27, 2012

Now I'm going to tell you something.

I have read enough books, catalogues and even magazines from the later Victorian through to the Edwardian era to be able to say that anglers behaving in what they think is a traditional way is new, very new indeed. Go back to say 1896 and read a few fishing books written in this period. Go back to even 1912 and read HT Sheringham. Nowhere do these great writers give the impression that there was anything traditional in the sport of angling.

When they used split cane they did so because it was the best of materials available then, not because there was something ethical about using it. When the first Illingworth reels were available, these great anglers welcomed these developments. They did not behave like silly fools as Venables did in Mr. Crabtree, stating that fixed spool reels were unsporting under certain conditions. Venables in my opinion was one of the biggest paltroons that has ever existed in our sport

And then we get Mr Yates, who in one video states that split cane (and listen at this) "wants to keep straightening, rather than stay bent"

The man is a complete nincompoop if he thinks that. From an engineering and mathematical viewpoint, especially when comparing cane with the best carbon, this notion is flawed. And the worse thing is that there are those who might believe him.

No, the great anglers of the Victorian era were great anglers because they made the very best use of what was available. They didn't float fish because they thought that float fishing was more sporting, they float fished because they thought it caught more fish. There were great Trent anglers who worked out how to get a sliding float to work in 30 feet of water. There were great anglers who made bait droppers from old tin cans. Even JW Martin came to realise that legering was a better method in some cases than the float.

That is why you don't see very many old rods or tackle used in coarse fishing prior to about 1860. They were discarded or even burned, when better rods became available.

Traditionalists in angling deserve not to exist. They are only kidding themselves, and the rest of the angling world that they have something of value.

All the so called traditionalists are, are a bunch of snobs!

redfin123 · Feb 27, 2012

Ron The Hat Clay said:
Now I'm going to tell you something.

I have read enough books, catalogues and even magazines from the later Victorian through to the Edwardian era to be able to say that anglers behaving in what they think is a traditional way is new, very new indeed. Go back to say 1896 and read a few fishing books written in this period. Go back to even 1912 and read HT Sheringham. Nowhere do these great writers give the impression that there was anything traditional in the sport of angling.

When they used split cane they did so because it was the best of materials available then, not because there was something ethical about using it. When the first Illingworth reels were available, these great anglers welcomed these developments. They did not behave like silly fools as Venables did in Mr. Crabtree, stating that fixed spool reels were unsporting under certain conditions. Venables in my opinion was one of the biggest paltroons that has ever existed in our sport

And then we get Mr Yates, who in one video states that split cane (and listen at this) "wants to keep straightening, rather than stay bent"

The man is a complete nincompoop if he thinks that. From an engineering and mathematical viewpoint, especially when comparing cane with the best carbon, this notion is flawed. And the worse thing is that there are those who might believe him.

No, the great anglers of the Victorian era were great anglers because they made the very best use of what was available. They didn't float fish because they thought that float fishing was more sporting, they float fished because they thought it caught more fish. There were great Trent anglers who worked out how to get a sliding float to work in 30 feet of water. There were great anglers who made bait droppers from old tin cans. Even JW Martin came to realise that legering was a better method in some cases than the float.

That is why you don't see very many old rods or tackle used in coarse fishing prior to about 1860. They were discarded or even burned, when better rods became available.

Traditionalists in angling deserve not to exist. They are only kidding themselves, and the rest of the angling world that they have something of value.

All the so called traditionalists are, are a bunch of snobs!

OK so you can read, but what good has it done you ron? its made you a bitter old man.

Frank Elson · Feb 27, 2012

yes, bitter. Actually worse than the Yates' of this world who really just like doing what they do. You don't see Chris Yates trying to impose his will on others - he just does what he likes.

Ron, yet again you pick on the angler who persists in using old Mitchell reels - was your pregnant mother frightened by a Mitchell reel or something?

I use my old Mitchell 300 because it still works... it catches fish. That's nothing to do with traditionalism. It is not an attack on modern equipment.
I will write very slowly so you get it into your head once and for all i-t w-o-r-k-s...

Alan Tyler · Feb 27, 2012

So, what about classic car nuts? Steam-engine preservationists? People who ride horses? People who use sailing boats? Who prefer Mozart to Hip-Hop? Paper books to Kindles? Real ale to factory lager? Shakespeare to Dan Browne? The entire antiques trade?

Sometimes the old is just better, sometimes it's more fun. Sometimes it's awful.

Each to his own, as and when he feels like it. As long as it does no harm, like, for instance, trying to fish three swims on a crowded fishery from spot is a "harm" to the amenity of others - and one more easily done with modern kit, and regrettably modern attitudes.

P.S. And I can't stand big Mitchells, only the Princes!

chub_on_the_block · Feb 27, 2012

Well put Frank.

I am most of the way trad in the sense i use old equipment, dont use boilies, spods, bite alarms, bivvies etc (most of innovations of the last 20 years). I may invest a bite alarm though as on the occasion i do go night fishing i am finding it harder to stay awake all night.

I like Yates and his approach - not that it is my way. I respect the ultra modern anglers using latest kit and methods, not that that is my way either. Its good t have a variety of approaches to fishing and not all using the same equipment or tactics. Its also nice to change from one style to another.

dezza · Feb 27, 2012

Alan Tyler said:
So, what about classic car nuts? Steam-engine preservationists? People who ride horses? People who use sailing boats? Who prefer Mozart to Hip-Hop? Paper books to Kindles? Real ale to factory lager? Shakespeare to Dan Browne? The entire antiques trade?

Traditionally, all these things you have mentioned have tradition and provenance. Fishing tackle just doesn't. Go back 120 years and you will find very few collecting or using ancient tackle.

If any.

That is the point I'm trying to make.

And if you can't accept that Bernard Venable was writing **** in his tirade against the fixed spool reel, then I give up.

Even Rickards didn't rate Venables.

barbelboi · Feb 27, 2012

He did do a pretty good job editing Creel though

Jerry

Jeff Woodhouse · Feb 27, 2012

beerweasel said:
So what's a Trad then Jeff ? Isaac Walton smock ? Horse hair line ?

No. This -

Ron The Hat Clay said:
They are only kidding themselves, and the rest of the angling world that they have something of value. All the so called traditionalists are, are a bunch of snobs!

For once, I entirely agree with Ron. To call oneself a traditionalist is to try and cause a divide that doesn't, in the spirit of our sport, exist. It's the old 'oneupmanship' or 'I am holier than thou' whereas the object of all our activities is exactly the same, it's just that some like to play with modern materials whilst others like to borrow their wife's sweet pea sticks.

redfin123 · Feb 27, 2012

Ron The Hat Clay said:
then I give up.

thats the first sensible thing you,ve said today.

kronos1 · Feb 27, 2012

Here is a nice little site dedicated to the traditional fisherman.

www.traditionalfisherman.co.uk

Philip · Feb 27, 2012

I guess a relative newcomer into the sport watching me bounce a tiny link ledger down the current under a flood raft for Chub rather than bolt rig it with pellets would consider I was a traditionalist.

I may consider the guy with the cane rod and the perch bobber and worm a traditionalist.

...I guess it depends on your perspective.

Jeff Woodhouse · Feb 27, 2012

Ok, that last bit about pea sticks was flippant. Nowt wrong with what Chris wants to do, it pulls his chain so fine. Just so long as he doesn't use it as a club to say that my style of using all modern gear is heathen, and I doubt that he ever would. But there are some that say "I'm a tradionalist" in order to set themselves well above the riff-raff of everyday angling and it's those that I despise and believe they render nothing but harm and division to our sport.

We all fish by sticking hooks through a fish's mouth (and I'll bet the 'tradionalists' use modern hooks and not bone) and the way we do it and at the times we want to do it is entirely up to us law abiding citizens. So long as we live together in peace and ..... some harmony, then so be it.

S-Kippy · Feb 27, 2012

Jeff Woodhouse said:
No. This -
For once, I entirely agree with Ron. To call oneself a traditionalist is to try and cause a divide that doesn't, in the spirit of our sport, exist. It's the old 'oneupmanship' or 'I am holier than thou' whereas the object of all our activities is exactly the same, it's just that some like to play with modern materials whilst others like to borrow their wife's sweet pea sticks.

Its just a label...and to generalise is unfair. Not all cane lovers need to dress up like Sherlock to enjoy their fishing. Those that do are just harmless eccentrics IMO...they can puff & spout and be as outraged as they like at each other. They dont bother me.

I have seen a couple on the bank. Mad as a bucket of frogs but loving it none the less. Where's the harm ? I feel far more threatened by some of these serious looking carp boys with their barrows,mobile gun emplacements and batboats. Now they DO scare the pants off a simple float angler like me.

What the hell is a "horse gudgeon" anyway...and frankly,my dear...

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