Groundbait ban

waggy · Mar 1, 2012

Supposing all groundbaiting were banned across the country in any kind of fishery: what would the effects be on catch sizes and individual fish sizes?
I've got a whole slew of views on that one; what are yours?

Lord Paul of Sheffield · Mar 1, 2012

small pellets used instead?

Peter Jacobs · Mar 1, 2012

waggy said:
Supposing all groundbaiting were banned across the country in any kind of fishery: what would the effects be on catch sizes and individual fish sizes?
I've got a whole slew of views on that one; what are yours?

That's easily displayed by taking a look at what happened to the match weights at Silkeborg, Denmark when they (stupidly) put a ban of groundbait.

Within 2 years the weights went down drastically to where visiting match anglers simply went over to Sweden instead.

itsfishingnotcatching · Mar 1, 2012

waggy said:
Supposing all groundbaiting were banned across the country in any kind of fishery: what would the effects be on catch sizes and individual fish sizes?

Are you including loose feeding of hookbait in this Waggy?

sam vimes · Mar 1, 2012

If this is purely groundbait and not anything similar that is somehow turned into a pellet or boilie, not a great deal. It might be a different story if we (in the UK) had lots of bream/roach venues like Scandanavia and Ireland.

I very rarely use groundbait these days bream venues are virtually non-existant in my part of the world. There is a tench venue that holds a few big slabs where I would use groundbait. If I couldn't then I'd probably use pellets.

Merv Harrison · Mar 1, 2012

Go back to using 'molehill soil'.

Although one commercial near me insists that soil is groundbait. Can't even use bread crumb in feeders.

waggy · Mar 1, 2012

Lord Paul of Sheffield said:
small pellets used instead?

Sorry, counts as groundbait unless it's just used on the hook.

---------- Post added at 14:50 ---------- Previous post was at 14:49 ----------

Peter Jacobs said:
That's easily displayed by taking a look at what happened to the match weights at Silkeborg, Denmark when they (stupidly) put a ban of groundbait.

Within 2 years the weights went down drastically to where visiting match anglers simply went over to Sweden instead.

What do you mean by 'visiting' match anglers, Peter?

---------- Post added at 14:52 ---------- Previous post was at 14:50 ----------

Merv Harrison said:
Go back to using 'molehill soil'.

Although one commercial near me insists that soil is groundbait. Can't even use bread crumb in feeders.

Ah, so, even though it's got no nutritional value, just momentarily attractive, it's still classed as 'groundbait'.

---------- Post added at 14:54 ---------- Previous post was at 14:52 ----------

itsfishingnotcatching said:
Are you including loose feeding of hookbait in this Waggy?

What kinds of hookbait - all hookbaits or just some of them?

sam vimes · Mar 1, 2012

I guess that you don't mean groundbait at all then. I suspect that loosefeed is the term you are grasping for.

waggy · Mar 1, 2012

sam vimes said:
If this is purely groundbait and not anything similar that is somehow turned into a pellet or boilie, not a great deal. It might be a different story if we (in the UK) had lots of bream/roach venues like Scandanavia and Ireland.

I very rarely use groundbait these days bream venues are virtually non-existant in my part of the world. There is a tench venue that holds a few big slabs where I would use groundbait. If I couldn't then I'd probably use pellets.

So you don't think there would be any alteration in shoaling dynamics if we couldn't use GB, Sam? We wouldn't get a more even distribution of fish along the length of a canal, say, or a river?

---------- Post added at 15:01 ---------- Previous post was at 14:58 ----------

sam vimes said:
I guess that you don't mean groundbait at all then. I suspect that loosefeed is the term you are grasping for.

Well I reckon that 'loosefeed', a useful euphemism in some circumstances, is groundbait if it's not on a hook.

cg74 · Mar 1, 2012

waggy said:
Supposing all groundbaiting were banned across the country in any kind of fishery: what would the effects be on catch sizes and individual fish sizes?
I've got a whole slew of views on that one; what are yours?

Any potential impact all depends on fish species, angling pressure, type and availability of natural food and stocking density.

waggy · Mar 1, 2012

What about differential species' densities with distance away from angling access points? It seems to me in some places that access points accumulate large numbers of (for want of a better word) prey species because of more groundbait and they then attract more predators, which attract more predator fishermen, who use more deadbaits and so it goes on.
The upshot is that a very uneven distribution occurs as the fish come to rely more on artificial foods and not natural foods. Might this then be knocking on to an unnaturally concentrated density of bird and mammalian fish predators too?

dangermouse · Mar 1, 2012

waggy said:
Well I reckon that 'loosefeed', a useful euphemism in some circumstances, is groundbait if it's not on a hook.

So if someone is fishing maggot or corn the loose offerings are groundbait?

I don`t see it that way. Groundbait is a specific product, it has the term on the bag in the case of mass produced products or would otherwise refer to home made products consisting of dried bread or other ingredients that are mixed with water, usually formed into balls and then deposited into the water. Loose feed is exactly that, a loose offering of feed. There are plenty of commercials that ban groundbait or only allow it to be fed by certain methods, polecup or feeder being the usual ones. I`m not aware of any that ban loose feeding as long as the bait itself isn`t banned.

sam vimes · Mar 1, 2012

waggy said:
So you don't think there would be any alteration in shoaling dynamics if we couldn't use GB, Sam? We wouldn't get a more even distribution of fish along the length of a canal, say, or a river?

---------- Post added at 15:01 ---------- Previous post was at 14:58 ----------

Well I reckon that 'loosefeed', a useful euphemism in some circumstances, is groundbait if it's not on a hook.

Sorry fella, groundbait is banned already on many fisheries already. It invariably means that you can't use crumb or meal based powder wetted down and introduced by hand, catapult or feeder. Pellets and the like aren't considered groundbait by most. If you mean any bait other than a hookbait then loosefeed is the most appropriate term and changes your question and any subsequent answers. Looking at the answers you've had, I'm not the only one thinking in these terms.

I suspect that no loosefeed would have a greater effect than no groundbait. However, I doubt that fish distribution would change much at all. They tend to hold in areas that have some natural attraction. Only a sustained baiting campaign can alter that and, even then, only temporarily.

cg74 · Mar 1, 2012

waggy said:
The upshot is that a very uneven distribution occurs as the fish come to rely more on artificial foods and not natural foods. Might this then be knocking on to an unnaturally concentrated density of bird and mammalian fish predators too?

In a few cases, probably yes, but in the majority of cases, NO!

little oik · Mar 1, 2012

To my mind Groundbait(Sensas vde etc) is only an attractor and has not got very much in it food value wise to make that much of a difference.Its the added particles that make the difference ie. corn and pellet .
In Ireland its one of the biggest problems we are facing, because of the dwindling numbers of anglers the vast shoals of fish are harder to locate and even when you locate them it is differcult to hold them . The more Groundbaiting (with particles and pellet ) that goes on the smaller the shoals become but more numerous as the larger shoals split up and feed on the offerings and are a lot easier to fish for . If you had a shoal of Bream of approx 1000 fish in the 5 to 7lb bracket how much groundbait would you need to keep them in the given area .The lack of attactants going in has caused these super shoals to get bigger and bigger all in the search for food .Where this leaves fishing I do not know .Obviously its the survival of the fittess and whether they are dying out due to lack of food I cannot really answer .
The real test would be no loosefeed. I think that would have more of a detrimental effect as there is only enough food to support a certain number of fish in a given area and if they had to rely on that solely then numbers would definitely drop over the course of a few years .You only have to think of all the feed going in to one of these carp puddles .There is no way in the world that a lake could sustain that amount fish on a natural diet .

waggy · Mar 2, 2012

Some interesting replies. But just supposing the only food or attractant you could put into the water had to be on a hook? |I can sense that most of you are struggling with this simple concept.

dangermouse · Mar 2, 2012

waggy said:
But just supposing the only food or attractant you could put into the water had to be on a hook? |I can sense that most of you are struggling with this simple concept.

Not the concept, just the terminology applied to the question.

If you had to rely on just hookbait of course it would be harder to catch. There would be nothing to attract fish into your swim and nothing to hold them there. Unless your swim had some sort of fish holding feature you would be relying on patrolling fish intercepting your hookbait.

sam vimes · Mar 2, 2012

waggy said:
I can sense that most of you are struggling with this simple concept.

Don't blame others for your inability to use the correct terminology when asking a question. Besides, I, and others, answered your question taking into account that you meant loosefeed rather than just groundbait.

samcoles · Mar 2, 2012

Local commercial to me bans loosefeeding of any kind.

It's just a small pond really and chocca with fish, not really any small ones either because of the cats.

dangermouse · Mar 2, 2012

samcoles said:
Local commercial to me bans loosefeeding of any kind.

That fascinates me. Out of curiosity does that mean that when you change your hook bait you have to throw it on the ground rather than into the water?

Not somewhere I`d fish.

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