ABOVE THE LEAD

I thought I would ask this question in the general section as it concerns course fishing as well as carp fishing.

Positioing your <u>rear rodrest </u>

I have seen people set their rod rests up as far appart as possible when useing a bite alarm and hanger type indicator. This is something that I used to do myself, if only to lock the butt of my rod in the rest, or so that I could have the first rod ring resting in front of the bite alarm. With the result that the hanger type indicator could be a matter of feet away from the rod butt.

I now set my <u>rear rod rest</u> no more than slightly longer than the length of the hanger indicator away from the bite alarm. Hopefully this is to ensure that no more than minimal effort is required before a take is registered by a fish, be it Carp, Tench, or Bream.

Am I thinking along the right lines? And what else could I do above the lead to create minimum resistance to a taking fish? i.e. slack/tight lines with the reasons for each or either please.

I method I used back inthe seventies for mimimum resistance for twitch bites was an idea I got from kevin Maddocks, that was to put the alarms in front of the rods on an extra rod rest, we didnt of course have the buzzers of today though and we did go through a twitching period in the 70s prior to the bolt and the hair

Take the lead off ,Baz, and feel the bites!

ah the old touch ledgering, a great method if you have the patience

I am talking of fishing at distance. I don't want to use a line clip, the idea behind the thinking was to have the hanger as level to the bite alarm as practicable (No drop). Also facing the rod directy at the bait can help. Then there is the angle of the line as it enters the water. Any ideas on what would give least resistance on a pick up? i.e. slack or tight line. Or more to the point which would register a pick up the first?

Tight line Baz, you are describing the clipped up method, but you need to be very attentive, I presume you are referring to carp fishing methods, the slack line method was one used for twitchers, were youy watched the line, the line would often move with no indication from either a bobbin or an alarm

Im a poof .............I like my but ring behind the alarm and set so the swinger is half way between the reel and the alarm ,this gives me min resistance and max indication

is it but or butt ....................the spell checker says both is right

It is carp methods I am taking about mate. And I will watch the line even when fishing at distance, but as you say it needs a lot of concentration.

As for a tight line giveing the first indication over a slack line, if you imagine a six inch hooklength lying behind a <u>semi fixed lead</u>, when a fish picks the bait up, surely it would be able to move around in an arc quite freely before it comes into contact with the lead?

Sorry , what I should have said was would a free running lead give a quicker indication than a semi fixed lead?

no both the same but with a semi fixed lead you would have to fish for drop backs

so with semi fixed I tend to fish clipped up (tight lines) so I get max drop on a drop back and if the fish swims away the clip will set the hook and fish is bolting pulling the line out of the clip .........works for me

but I like swinging and not dangling !

Thanks for the replys Monk/Cakey it is helpfull.

What I am getting at is, wouldn't the line on a free running lead pull straight through the lead thus giveing less resistance? Also the running lead must be fished on a slack line.

As for a tight line giveing the first indication over a slack line, if you imagine a six inch hooklength lying behind a <u>semi fixed lead</u>, when a fish picks the bait up, surely it would be able to move around in an arc quite freely before it comes into contact with the lead?

Sorry , what I should have said was would a free running lead give a quicker indication than a semi fixed lead?

Yes you are right Baz, indeed most free running leads are not as free running with many acting as fixed leads once cast. I once wrote an article in one of the David Hall mags about rig deign and bite indication complete with diagrammes,I think I called it "Beyond the Pharangeal" or something alone those lines, the thibnk is we used to swim out after casting out and test these things in the water, you would be amazed just how anti-tangle (so called rigs) behave once casted, the longer the hook length, depending on design of course, the less chance of indication, the arc effect was classic in freelining which is why it ceased being used of course. I was also amazed at just how often we go the lake bed wrong after leading around. Also of interest even with pop ups baits had just vanished in the bottom debris after casting, in some casses hidden in smelling silt, yet we stiull caught fish, the carp found them and took the bait, there really is a lot of crap written about these things by people who have not real knowledge or understanding of how a rig reacts under water, you really need to be under the water to find out, not always possible or safe of course, so don`t try this at home kids.

Baz if a lead is genuinly free running and you are using say a baitrunning or open spool method, I really dont see any need to a slack line, with a slack line you are technicaslly not as much in contact and thus control as you would be with a line right through to the lead.

That's right Monk.

I sometimes think about what happens to a rig once it has been cast out, and what or how you think it has landed. I did a little test at the weekend. I cast my lead 20 yds along the margin, feathering it down as it hit the water. This was to ensure that my hooklength straightened out behind the lead as it landed.

When I had a closer look at it, the hookength bait was lay alongside the lead, and this was in shallow water. Just think what happens when fishing in deep water. For a good number of years I used to cast out, and then pull back slightly once the lead had landed. Thinking that I could have pulled my hookbait into the silt or snags, I then used to try and guess when the lead was just about to reach the lake bed and then pull back slowly before it landed. Either way I still caught fish.

I want a supple hooklength, so what are your thoughts on something like a combination rig to ensure my hooklength lies as staight as possible? Was there someing called a springbow rig at one time?

And why a swinger as opposed to a dangler Cakey, are there any benifits? Just like me to be awkward, I prefer a hanger, not entirely sure why though.

Back later chaps.

I want a supple hooklength, so what are your thoughts on something like a combination rig to ensure my hooklength lies as staight as possible? Was there someing called a springbow rig at one time?

yes Baz deep water is a different story than just casting into the shallows and visually looking at the way its landed, one idea however is to PVA tape the hooklength along a pieceof straight twig, with a bit of leaded putty at the hook end or even a small stone pVA foir those who dont want to put putty on the lakebed, but not on the hook of courseand cast out using that method, basically the lead lands first and the puttiy pulls the stick down with the strenghtend hooklength on it, the pva melts and thus you have a straight hook length away from the lead, thats providing the terminal tackle lands in a clear spot on a hard bottom of course.

when fishing into thick weed, very thick weed, just put the hook bait and lead plus a few freebies straight into a pva bag and cast the lot right into the middle of the weeds, the carp will find iut, the lot will usually pull right through the weeds and land on the clear bottom below the weeds, on a strike the line will normally cut through the weed, dont pull at it, just keep the pessure on, oh and don`t try this methods into lilliy pads, well not the thick ones anyway, lillypads grow from the bottom of course.

Back later chaps.

why where you going?

sorry I assumed you had hooked the fish and wanted to know what one would indicate first my answer is neither /both still

what monk says about a the semi fixed hooked fish could swim in circles before giving an indication is also true for for a running rig because you are also using a hooklength !

you can fish tight or slack line with either set up Baz

but like I said if you fish a slack line on a semi fixed its very hard to get a drop back ,I know all the theories about water resistance giving you indication but if a fish swim dead back up your line there will be no resistance and no indication so why take chances ,tight line semi ,slack or tight running