Fly Rods, are many of them horribly overpriced?

I'll say they are!

Many of you I know are coarse anglers. However if you get the chance, have a look at a typical fly rod, the average one being 9 feet long which will cast a 6 weight line. It will generally be in 3 or 4 pieces for ease of transport and have a short cork handle about 9 to 10 inches long. There will be a fancy screw reel seat and there will be 9 or 10 chrome plated snake rings together with what is called a "hayfork" tip ring. These are the cheapest rings you can get. I bought a pack of 10 for only a fiver a few years ago, H & H, the best make too.

There is generally a heck of a lot less labour in a fly rod than a 13 foot float rod for instance, and you can get an adequate float rod these days for less than £50.00. The manufacturers may make a big deal of the carbon used in the blank of course, but quite honestly the compound tapers that make up a good float rod by say Drennan, require a hell of a lot more engineering skill than in any flyrod!

And there are some flyrods, especially those "from America" that can cost upwards of £600.00 in the UK. And no sour grapes here at all. I own one such rod and have used several others from this stable in the past. Are they any good?

Well at that price they bloody well ought to be! Personally I think they are complete rip-offs. These days the fly rods by Sonik and Greys are every bit as good as these Yanky brag pieces. I have a 9 1/2 foot 6/7 weight Sonik that gets far more use than my American rod, mainly because it's superior in every way. And that rod cost me one sixth of the price of a Yanky wonderstick.

Oh and by the way, those of you who think that the wondersticks are made in America had better think again. Most of them are made in either China or South Korea, just like the Soniks and the Greys!

Ron,
When I took up fly fishing years ago I allways aspired to owning a sage rod. A few years down the line I bought myself one and was quite chuffed! Well, did it make me a better caster? Did it ******! I could cast longer and better with my Shimano Hyperloop that cost me £400 less!
And yes Ron, most of these rods are made in the far east, a total rip off!!

Mark

They are ludicrously overpriced. The trouble with fly rods is that you are actually working them all the time and it can take a while to discover what rod suits you best. That could be one costing £600 or it could be one costing £60. As I've said before on here I've found that the action of Hardy & Grey's rods seem to suit my casting style better [they are I think a little softer] than your Orvis,Sage etc. I've tried them...but I dont get on with them.

But £5-6-700 for a fly rod ? Crazy.

Take a good look through a Sportfish catalogue, they must think that ALL game anglers are best mates with Richard Branson! Its not just the rods and reels that a expensive but even a tackle bag costs more than a pair of ''decent'' carp rods!

Mark

Dont get me started on Sportsfish ! Utter footpads.

S-Kippy said:

Dont get me started on Sportsfish ! Utter footpads.

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I once had a very ''nice'' conversation with a certain Danny North about a pair of sunglasses, I asked him why they were £80 more than their competitors, all he could say was that, even at the Sportfish price they ARE the BEST and Sportfish only sell ''THE BEST'' and they could justify the price... Arrogant just doesn't come in to it!

Mark

Yes, but ... no, but...

I have a lot of such rods, first bought from, some later given to me by Sage, its then British distributors, Partridge of Redditch, from the very early 1980s onwards (I had some of the first Sage rods that reached these shores), some bought for $s and excise-free at a Tierra del Fuego tacklestore in the 1990s to early '00s, some given to me by U.S. and European angling friends for whom I'd done some great fishy favours...

I have long used such rods, having discovered very early on that the best of them left all other rods for dead when it came to casting a long distance or casting in high winds, presenting a fly just how you wanted it...

But, as ever, people got greedy - the flyfishing industry went into marketing overdrive and sold many many thousands of these rods in the years following the 1992 sea-change movie for flyfishing, A River Runs Through It, and changed flyfishing worldwide forever. Great gear (and not merely the new rods), at its best, an expert's or experienced angler's first choice, no doubt about it, but what about the ordinary joes, the beginners, the kids, the people who fancied trying flyfishing but blanched at the price tags...?

In the 1990s to 2008 crazy boom, the industry seemed to completely forget about them, not only not offering decent fly rods at an affordable price to such people but also falling into the trap of snobbish elitism ("You're not a flyfisher unless you're sporting a Sage, an Orvis, a Loomis, a Winston ... maybe you should try nightcrawlers and spinfishing tackle from Walmart...").

It has badly backfired on them: flyfishers are declining in numbers in the States (in Britain, too), with the ones still fishing tending to be wealthier people and those 50s to 70s babyboomers who are getting older and older and by slow degrees dying off, with fewer and fewer youngsters and ordinary guys replacing them - not merely priced out (not merely by the price of fly tackle but also by the hikes in the price of fishing), but also put off by the wave of toxic snobbery and better-than-thou elitism that followed in the train of the '90s fly boom.

So, very nice rods many of them, rods that I have fished since the late 1970s (my first being a graphite Orvis Limestone Special), but at prices, the industry is only now discovering, that are killing the pastime and its own future sales.

Now that is absolutely true, all of it.

But if people want to spend £600 going on £700 on 9 feet of hollow carbon with £8.00s worth of fittings (trade prices), and a tenner's worth of blank, put together with about £3.00s worth of Chinese cottage labour, who shall say them nay. It's their money and they can do with it what they will.

But to be honest, I see more fly fishers who should be investing say £300 on casting lessons rather than waste money on a fancy Yankee Stick which will NOT make them cast better if they are useless in the first place.

mark brailsford 2 said:

I once had a very ''nice'' conversation with a certain Danny North about a pair of sunglasses, I asked him why they were £80 more than their competitors, all he could say was that, even at the Sportfish price they ARE the BEST and Sportfish only sell ''THE BEST'' and they could justify the price... Arrogant just doesn't come in to it!

Mark

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And there I was thinking it was just me !

If you want to experience the full on Sportfish "customer experience" go to what was Farlows of Pall Mall. I dont know what I was thinking going in there and how I left without chinning someone [customers or staff] I will never know. There is no word that adequately describes the utter indifference I was shown once it became apparent I was not "Sir" anything and had no intention of throwing money at them.

Its the look that gets me...like you've just shat on their floor.

S-Kippy said:

Its the look that gets me...like you've just shat on their floor.

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Yeah, I noticed that. It wasn't a big jobbie though.

S-Kippy said:

If you want to experience the full on Sportfish "customer experience" go to what was Farlows of Pall Mall. I dont know what I was thinking going in there and how I left without chinning someone [customers or staff] I will never know. There is no word that adequately describes the utter indifference I was shown once it became apparent I was not "Sir" anything and had no intention of throwing money at them.

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Years ago, whilst on a trip to London, I got much better and far more friendly service at a very famous Savile Row tailor than Farlows.

I bought a shirt, and do you know I still have it, it was so well made. It was worth every penny!

Wife bought a sage xp and sage reel for a wedding pressie, used it once.

Prefer middle to tip fly rods. better fish playing action and I can put a full line out without a problem.

Wouldn't give them the money for any modern day trout rod or trotting rod anymore, the last carbon rod I bought is sat in the attic which is an old model Drennan DRX 16ft, I would much rather now fish with split cane which I have refurbished myself for a quarter of what makers are asking for today & get much more pleasure from it.

I did my work experience at Sportfish Reading. There was this one very rich elderly customer who always arrived in a different high end sports car, apparently once he dropped in on his helicopter just to chat fishing, basically to say hello.
The staff seemed to have an unofficial competition with one another as to who could sell him the most top end, highly expensive rods. I believe at that point, which was a couple of years ago now, he had 7 hardy angel fly rods, sold to him. The best thing about this story is the fact that the guy couldn't even cast a decent fly line, and was a terrible fisherman!

Sportfish did however give to me, as a gift to remember my time there, a very nice hardy marksman spoon net. They're not the devil, but they're not entirely honest. If I were to buy another fly rod, I'd test them out at sportfish to see how they cast, then give them the whole "I'll think about it",and then i'd get my local tackle dealer to order me one in!

thamesoddity said:

I did my work experience at Sportfish Reading. There was this one very rich elderly customer who always arrived in a different high end sports car, apparently once he dropped in on his helicopter just to chat fishing, basically to say hello.
The staff seemed to have an unofficial competition with one another as to who could sell him the most top end, highly expensive rods. I believe at that point, which was a couple of years ago now, he had 7 hardy angel fly rods, sold to him. The best thing about this story is the fact that the guy couldn't even cast a decent fly line, and was a terrible fisherman!

Sportfish did however give to me, as a gift to remember my time there, a very nice hardy marksman spoon net. They're not the devil, but they're not entirely honest. If I were to buy another fly rod, I'd test them out at sportfish to see how they cast, then give them the whole "I'll think about it",and then i'd get my local tackle dealer to order me one in!

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I will never forget that phone conversation with D north, If I was the rude type I would Have just put the phone down on him...and it was me who contacted him!!!

Mark

S-Kippy said:

If you want to experience the full on Sportfish "customer experience" go to what was Farlows of Pall Mall. I dont know what I was thinking going in there and how I left without chinning someone [customers or staff] I will never know. There is no word that adequately describes the utter indifference I was shown once it became apparent I was not "Sir" anything and had no intention of throwing money at them.

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I am a little surprised, how long ago Skip? I am certainlty not a 'Sir' but I've had good service in Farlows in recent years, years ago I would have agreed with you.

I found most of the staff very chatty and helpful on fishing matters and most of the advice I have sought there was about catching Carp and Pike on fly's in recent years.

Stu

Let's just say that one staff member, for whom in the 1990s I very generously arranged a freebie trip to fish sea-trout with landowner pals of mine in Argentina not only was very rude to me personally but proceeded to bad mouth me through the posh end of British Angling. End of....

stu_the_blank said:

I am a little surprised, how long ago Skip? I am certainlty not a 'Sir' but I've had good service in Farlows in recent years, years ago I would have agreed with you.

I found most of the staff very chatty and helpful on fishing matters and most of the advice I have sought there was about catching Carp and Pike on fly's in recent years.

Stu

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Couple of years Stu...but I used to visit SF at Reading regularly & wont go there either now. Full of it doesn't even get close.

I agree with Paul and George (and partly with Ron). Some fly rods are over-priced, but most anglers would be better served with cheaper and easier actioned rods. There are loads of reasonably priced fly rods out there and spending around £100 will get you a really good one.

My rods all (well, with the exception of the Fario Club which was a vanity purchase) cost me less than £60 and they have served me well for a number of years now. Like George, I tend to use a cane rod when fishing running water in everything but the worst conditions. My rod for this is a Milwards Flycraft which I purchased for less than £20 and restored. This rod does most things well and it has a bit of me invested in it.

Now Ron will vouch for me as being a competent, if less than stylish, caster and in extreme conditions I often find myself asking a little more of my rods than they can deliver. As Paul says, this is where the more expensive rods can come into their own. OK you may be paying over the odds for a name, but the high price gives the manufacturere some margin that can be used to get the taper and materials absolutely spot on. I have friends who are highly experienced and competent fly fishers with extensive salt water experience and they swear by some of the big name rods as being able to deliver everything asked of them.

One thing I would say is that some of the lower priced Orvis rods are really excellent and whilst you might pay a little more for the name they are still good value.

I am a little surprised that Ron hasn't had a take from Mr Jacobs. I'd have expected a single toner very soon after the first cast:wh

Sean Meeghan said:

Now Ron will vouch for me as being a competent, if less than stylish, caster and in extreme conditions I often find myself asking a little more of my rods than they can deliver. As Paul says, this is where the more expensive rods can come into their own.

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Make no mistake, some of the high priced rods are exceptional performers, I don't doubt that. I just do not see close on £700 in a simple stick with snake rings on it, compared with say a 13 foot top of the range match rod from the stables of say Daiwa (made in UK) or Preston at £250. One famed USA based fly rod uses Hopkins and Holloway snake rings made in UK which I can buy for about 50p each.

I would not recommend certain American rods to beginners. The action in most cases is very fast and doesn't give much leeway for error.

---------- Post added at 10:46 ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 ----------

Oh and by the way Sean, Beg, buy or borrow any rod from the Sonik range which are around £110.00, if you haven't already.

I'll think you will agree with me that for the money these are wonderful rods. I used one of them all the time in NZ and it won many admirers.