How To Make Yours A Lot Longer

Is Kevin right? Have we all lost the plot? Or is it not as simple as that?

Interesting article.

Its funny how you speak about taking a beachcaster and using it for Pike, this is exactly what Eddie Turner did to reach some of the big bike he used to fish for. (Chalk Pit etc)

If you look at out and out distance rods for the beach (5 oz can be cast close to 300 yards!!), you are looking at well over ?300 for a made up rod. Times that by 3 (all good anglers must use 3 rods..hehe) and u are looking at a heap of money.

Having said that, the Conoflex Flattie Fanatic is perhaps the best distance pike rod I have used. It casts 4-5 oz over 150 yards, and is a nice slim blank. Conversly, the Big Bertha Spod rod is being used by beach casters for long range flattie fishing.

As for using multipliers...several problems occur. First is that sometimes, after you have wound up for a big cast, as the bait (head , tail section) wings its way out into the lake, if can sometimes spin or flutter in the air. This can lead to overruns on the spool. Not much fun!. secondly, the rod does not sit too well in the rests, tending to sit lop sided. This can be cured by using tight fitting U back rests or velcro.

I tend to use multiplier exclusively off the beach/rocks and when fishing from a boat for Pike.

One thing I would say above all is that the average "long distance" carp/piker really is not using there gear to its full potential. The over head thump is a very innificiante method. Go to the library and look at John Holdens book on distance casting. The most practical cast for the freashwater angler would probably be the Uni cast. On a rifle range i can put 3 oz close to 160 metres. Add a boillie, and it drops about 10-12 metres. Still a long way. With a multiplier and beachcaster (dream machine GS match special) I can casr 5oz over 220 metres (have my badge to prove it hehehe)...and I am not heavily built. Its all timing etc.

Sorry..i have waffled on...basically, Kevin is correct, a multiplier and beachcaster will out perform some of the best distance carp rods, fairly easily. But will the enjoyment of the fight be lost?

Of course Kevin is correct. I have used beachcasters and multipliers for years - from the beach.

I can never understand why long distance carpers handicap themselves with fixed spool reels and badly designed rods.

Most 3 to 4 lb carp rods I have ever handled, and here I am talking about expensive stuff, have been extremely poorly designed for long distance casting. And these guys regularly use leads up to 4 or even 5 ounce.

The so called "big pit" reel is a complete waste of good money. Get yourself a modest 6001 C or similar and you will be able to cast much farther with even a poorly made carp rod than a proper distance casting tool with a fixed spool reel on it.

When I was in my 30s I could chuck a 5 oz weight 160 metres (measured) using a fibreglass rod of 11 feet and Abu 6000C multiplyer. And such a reel is far better for playing a big fish.

I still see some anglers with fixed spool reels fishing for big fish getting into all sorts of problems. A multiplyer is a far more efficient tool and a good one will last a lifetime.

I remember a lake I fished, and still do from time to time, that banned the use of sea fishing gear as they deemed it too brutal to use on fish. The lake stocked pike up to 25lb and carp in excess of 35lb.
I don't know if this is still the case on waters that you fish, but may be worth investigating before you get into some kind of trouble.

Where do you draw the line at what is sea fishing gear. The majority of long distance carp rods are brute sticks compared to some beach casting tools. And then there are those silly "big pit" reels. Did you know these were originally designed in America for beach anglers who were too stupid to learn how to cast with a proper reel (multiplyer).

And by the way the majority of carp rods have the reel seat set much too high up the rod for effective casting.

In this case, the line was drawn by the bailiff (?SP). I haven't been back for a while so don't know if it is still the case.

However I would agree with you on the points raised, not that I am one for casting up to 150 yards. If there is gear available that is more up to the job than the gear labelled for the job, why not use it as long as it is balanced correctly with appropriate strength line etc
I wear a pair of steel toed riggers boots when I am digging the garden. Deemed by some as not the appropriate gear, at least they have stopped the fork going through my foot now and again !!!

It might be a case of the "purists" versus the "radicals" !!!

Interesting to see how this one pans out.

Neither am I one for casting such distances, except perhaps from the sea shore. The problem is with modern carp rods that they are pretty useless for both distance casting AND playing big fish.

Now I expect to get all sorts of comments from some modern carp anglers regarding the amount of fish they have caught with such inadequate gear. What they should be considering is how many more fish they would have landed with good tackle, not how they overcame the obvious drawbacks and landed fish in spite of their tackle.

Further, it is extremely difficult to put heavy pressure on a big fish with a rod in excess of 11 feet with a tip action. There is simply too much lever against you. You would have to be of herculean proportions to bend such a rod anywhere near it's so called test curve.

If you look at many of the top beach rods, they are a blend of several materials, in very distinctive bands. For example, my Zziplex rods have a 6 foot full carbon butt, the tip then has 2 feet of carbon, then two feet of what looks like a composite of something, then two feet of what i guess to be fibre glass. This means it has a powerful casting action but a very sensitive tip section. U can feel the power build as you cast. Amazing feeling...the rod is "alive" in the cast.

Quite frankly, carp rods are not built for casting 4oz leads, no matter what the manufacturers say. Just compare a tournament casting rod with a distance carp rod. Infact, go onto the Augatters site and u will see a split cane rod, "The Flying Fox Mk VII at 11foot 9 inches. It has been used to cast 170 yards with a multiplier and a 2 oz weight. Makes u wonder about some of the "carbon" rods on the market..doesn't it

What do you reckon Ron...shall we start making split cane rods and paint them Carbon grey?

No not at all Rob, carbon and some coposites will do fine. What I would like to see however is a complete re-appraisal of rod design on what I term "specialist" rods. I could talk about this subject for hours, suffice to say that the vast majority are tecnically plain wrong and are based on the ignorance of the carp sub culture that existes today.

Strong words indeed.

Its a shame the better blank designers, Conoflex, Zziplex, Greys, Metalite etc dont do a good range of freshwater "casting" rods. I know Zziplex did some carp rods that were more than capable of 170 yards, but I have not seen them for a while. Maybe because they werent ultra thin sporting the latest weaves and braids etc.

I know this sounds silly but I've actually heard some youngish carpers moaning because they couldn't afford the latest colour in rods. I've also discovered that some carpers actually change their rods every year to keep looking the part.

For me, a rod has to last many years. When I've built up a set of satisfactory gear it will tend to grow on me. Before I was burgled, I was using a Fenwick weight 5 8ft fly rod that I purchased in 1980 regularly and had no desire to replace it.

I think it is fair to say that there are certain rods today which have reached a very high standard of perfection. Take what we call the match rod (called such because it's not used for match fishing any more) or general float rod. You can buy these in lengths from 13 to 20 feet and in different degrees of power that will suffice extremely well for all kinds of float fishing. You can get some excellent rods for under ?100.00.

Then there are what are called barbel rods. Again there are some good ones although a few are very overpriced. I also wish they would make them in 3 pieces. 6 foot lengths are a hell of a job to cart around.

Carp or big fish rods are the ones that need re-designing. Those awful handles (I can't stand duplon) The overall aspect is pretty grim.

Ron made mention of reel seats being placed too high up the blank of a carp rod. Wondered if anyone had built their own rod and placed the reel seat nearer to the butt of the rod and then been able to cast further.

The only reason for placing the real seat lower on a casting rod, is so that you release the line with the (usually) left or lower hand, as the right is then held tightly against the rod so that you don't lose any power on the punch/pull.
This is totally wasted on a carp rod, as they don't have the lower blank power of a beachcaster and applying full power on a carp rod, as you would with a beachcaster, would overload the blank too early.

I can cast my Paul Kerry's 185m with a single clipped down rig and bait, and this is with fixed spools.
I don't believe that multipliers make much difference on distance any more and I've owned a few.
The winching power is generally better, if you feel that bullying a fish in, is seen as a pre-requisite for a reel.

I know that my beach rods would out cast my carp rods, but there wouldn't be any joy in trying to play a carp on them, the fear of a hook pull would probably dampen any joy for starters.

Hmmmmmm think I'll stick to me centrepin and the margins, distance, like size isn't everything.........

and that's why most carp rods are built as they are and aren't built like beachcasters, so that you can fish the margins aswell.

Compromise is the key word.

C.A. I agree fixed spools now cast as far as multipliers. Fixed spools actually cast further into a head wind as I found out last summer after a casting lesson.

I do wonder though why multipliers aren't used more in the freshwater scene. I'm thinking particularly about pike fishing & some comments on the site about fixed spools wearing out in short time after wacking out big weights.

CA - I appreciate your comments, but would you limit yourself to using the same rods for margin fishing as horizon hunting.(Have you really only got two rods?)The main pitch I was trying to make was just that if we anglers had to cast huge distances, and I am not sure that is always the case, shouldn't we look to tried and tested tackle and techniques? As to playing in a carp or pike from 150 yards, is that any more likely to pull out hooks than say, bringing ashore a 25lb cod.A fish is a fish is a fish as they say. I tried to say in the article that the answer may be in a downrated beachcaster rather that an uprated carp/pike rod. I just feel that the rod manufacturers appear to be playing catch-up on one side,(dare I say more lucrative) when, in truth, they are already there on another.

I totally agree about the rod manufacturer side of things.

The Flattie Fanatic and other bass/flounder rods have always struck me as superb distance carp/pike rods and none of them over ?100.

Show me where I can catch 25lb cod from the beach and I'll be there tomorrow )

Hook sizes and mouth structure mean I'm less likely to lose a cod than a carp.
I'm not bothered about mouth damage on a cod as it's not likely to be going back alive.
A totally different perspective when it comes to carp, as the well being of the fish, during and after the fight is my main concern.

2 rods????
More like 32 (I kid you not)

When I fish smaller waters and I know that distance or fish sizes mean I'll be needing the 1 3/4's (or the 2's or the 2 1/4's) then that's what I'll take.
It's when I'm on a larger lake and the fish could be anywhere from 0 to 150 yards that means I take the 2 3/4's as it's not feasible to pack 8 rods (3 small+3 big+ spod+ marker)

Rod manufacturers exploiting a willing audience?
Surely not......

It's funny you mention the flattie & bass rods as I've always thought a bass rod would be useful for the heavier side of course fishing.
Could use a small multiplier then.

Maybe I spend too much time trying to make my 'few' rods do everything.

Rik, unfortuantly, you are a sensible angler! I remember fishing Sapphire likes near Newark a number of years ago. A certain well known local angler stood there for 40 minutes slagging off my gear (1 3/4 12 foot Northwesterns, Aero baitrunners, brown bivvie etc etc) and then told me what I should be using. On a water where a 50 yard chuck was more than enough, he said i had to have Aerlex reels and Hutchy Horizons. He then took out his bait boat and placed his baits within 15 yards of the bank! Oh how I cried with laughter. Cut a long story short, in 24 hours my mate and I had 7 fish, he had....none!

Dave, bass rods have been used for years by pikers in the know. U see a few on the Scopttish lochs because big baits and big casts are needed. I dont know of a "pike" rod out there that will cast 6oz, not lob, into a head wind. Bass rods tend to be made up in rather bright colours, but buy a blank and u are laughing.

Oh..and Rik...if u want a 25 pound cod of the beach..I know a place...it produced 2 on Monday night...along with 7 over 15 pounds! Bit of a drive for you though!