Which rod to use for floaters?

Hello out there.

I am trying to decide which rod is best, or at least pretty good, at casting single dog biscuits/expanders without controller floats. I have been using a Wychwood SPD Stillwater Specialist 1.6t/c, but to really shoot out some distance I tried an old Daiwa Tornamax 13' match rod, which cast way further but was a little bit (!!!) light weight when I caught a 23 pounder. Ok if there are no snags, but limited control once you're hooked up.

I wondered if maybe the Normark Commercial Carp 13ft Float Rod might be the answer.

Any ideas folks?

I'd say some type of fly rod/floating line combination would be best suited.

Reasonble quality 9-10ft 7#/8# rods can be found for £50-£60 with basic reels less than £15.+ Its great fun!!

For freelining I find that I don't want the rod to be too long, as the additional length = lots of extra rod rings and more friction, especially with small match rod rings. This extra drag tends to outweigh the benefits of extra leverage with length.

I do best with a Fox Barbel specialist, 11 feet long but also with large nearly spinning rod size rod rings and enough backbone at one and a half pound tc to deal with anything up to 20 lbs with a damn sight more fun than the traditiional 2.75 lb broomsticks.

A fly rod does work but doggy bics etc just don't stay on the hook. I either use a beetle fly - round little ball of trimmed brown deer hair, like the head of a muddler - or an enterprise baits artificial tiger nut impaled on a size ten medium / long shank hook.

The enterprise tiger works best but doesn't cast that well because of its weight, margins only and watch out for the hook in the ear bit. Beetle fly not quite so convincing to the carp, but you can cast it the full distance. Both closely resemble the floating free offerings and there isn't anything much more fun than a big carp on a light fly rod /forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif.

You don't need to go as heavy as a 7#/8#, (though that can help with distance and larger artificials) I do fine with an 8 1/2 foot 6# weight (original Hardy Smuggler) which is soooo much more fun in the fight. Neither artificial is quite as convincing as the real thing and it can be very frustrating to watch a canny carp mop up all the freebies around the artificials while studiously ignoring them ! I have thought about glugging or some flavour dip to increase their plausibility, but how to make it...... does anyone do a doggy bic dip ? Or a wee bit of trout pellet oil + ground up doggy bics as a coating ?

Have found the same problem with the artificial. Always carry them though just in case.

I glue up a handful of biscuits while waiting for the carp to get confident on the freebies.

When fishing at distance i always use the enterprise counterbalanced artificials.

I have a Fox Controller rod which is a specialist stalking rod (and a good one at that), being a stalking rodit is 8ft in length, very light, and has a test curve of 1.75lb. I think they retail at about £100.

Thanks for the replies thus far.

My favourite stalking water is tree lined and doesn't allow the scope to fly fish unfortunately, as it sounds a fun way in which to take a carp off the surface Mark. I will try it out elsewhere this summer.

Your Barbel Specialist is quite similar in action, I wouldthink Evan, to the 1.6t/c SPD I use at the moment. It surprises me to say, that, despite the squillions ofrings on my match rod, it seems to be able to cast further when using the same reel/line/end tackle.

I have tried using my Free Spirit 10' Bank Creeper, but again can't cast anywhere near as far as with the 13ft match rod. Maybe its my inability to master a suitable casting technique but honestly I don't think so, hence the original question to discover which match style rod is best able to handle biggish carp.

i have been using a shimano barbel avon 1 1/4 tc for years and could get a good distrance with a single mixer,have recently changed to using a fox barbel duo lite 1 3/4 with same results with a stronger rod

The rod rings thing is interesting. I have read elsewhere and a long time ago some knowledge about size not mattering but the spacing between the rings being crucial, so as to prevent / damp out any 'skipping rope' type rotating standing waves in the moving line between rod rings... or was it to synchronise with them ? Something like that.

The other thing you can do is to pull loops of line down off the rod to the left hand side, as in centre pin casting technique, don't know what its called.

You take hold of the line in between the first and second rod rings, pull it off down to your left with left hand (assuming right handed) and then release it at the end of the forward movement on the on the cast, voila, no drag and the free line shoots out + added momentum to pull more off the reel.

Once you've got that sorted you can move on to pulling a second loop down at the same time from between the second and third ring..... and if you're really smart with the arms of a gorilla (and I ain't) some people even manage a third loop from past the third rod ring.

Easier to do than to describe.

Mind you, what's the problem with a controller ? If they are spooky about a conventional controller then

a) always use floating braid for both mainline and to the hook, I find that any line sinking into a bow below a floating bait, <u>no matter how flouro transparent or thin</u>, is the kiss of death (in passing why do people persist in thinking that the fact that a line is transparent to light makes much odds to fish which use the sonar effect of their lateral line sensors as much if not more than their eyes* ? when a loop dangling down in the water will cast a reflection / water disturbance that a floating line doesn't)

b) use a Fox transparent in line bubble float type controller half full of water. Casts to the horizon, almost invisible in use and has a useful self hooking effect if the hook link is lying straight

c) super stealth mode, use a stick tied to the mainline with thin pva string top and bottom. If it casts OK - and beware, fifty percent of the time it won't, can be a frustrating tangle city affair - then let alone the camo effect of a natural stick that doesn't spook after a minute or so the pva is gone and your floater is floating free. Though at those distances it can be a bugger to see bites....

.

* some fascinating stuff coming out about sensors from dolphin research. I know they are mammals and create their own clicks rather than just receiving interference waves like fish do with their lateral lines, but what they can 'see' is amazing. They can apparently 'see' all of each other's and divers internal organs and much more more than you would think possible. Including the fact that a woman researcher was (just) pregnant before she knew it, forming up protectively around her in the same way that they would around a preggers female dolphin. The apparently solid is effectively semi-transparent to them....

Were not that solid. Being as were mainly made out of water.

Always use floating braid as main line myself. Do not agree on the hooklength though mate. Throw back to my flyfishing days but have seen what a line on a flat surface can look like. It can be like a lightning flash. So always try to have a little line sunk just before the bait.

Agreed in relation to a pukka fly and trout, but not for Carp on the floater. I suspect that as an out and out predator Trout have much better eyes than Carp and rely on them more.

With Carp I have tried both methods back to back against each other on a number of occasions. Even though a floating braid line on the surface must silhouette against the sky in my experience it still beats any sunken line hooklink, whether flouro or not.

Another possible theory relates to how Carp bash floating baits with flanks and tail to see the way it reacts and if it is tethered / to dislodge it from any hook (especially with bread) before circling round and taking it if satisfied. With a sinking line forming a bow beneath a floating bait there is always a tendency for the floater to move gradually back towards the controller in an unnatural straight line as the hooklength line gradually goes down and sinks into an ever deepening curve / is pulled on by the carp's tail bashing. With a floating line the floater is a lot more free to waft about randomly and more naturally.

Still, its not rocket science and the real key is to feed carefully, properly and patiently before introducing the first hook bait. And once you've got a shoal of twenty or thirty carp fighting over every bait like a jacuzzi it's red letter day time again /forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif Floating baits, my fave every time.

Evan i will take what you say onboard. When the floater season starts again i will try the braided hooklink.

You could always try putting a few freebies in a small PVA bag, attach it to your hook alongside you floater. You can then cast quite a considerable distance but srill have the freeline effect once the PVA has melted.

Best of both worlds might be a floating clear mono hooklink Bryan ? I shall certainly give that another experimental go, dose it with the old vaseline and see what happens. Certainly floating, wafting freely and transparent has to be the winning combo if logic has anything to do with it. But this is fishing and logic very often doesn't ! Which is part of the appeal.... /forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif

I use clear mono and spray the spool with linefloat aerosoland then grease the last couple of feet with Mucilin. Dont ask me why I came up with this but it seems to work. I have tried not greasing the last couple of inches to the hook, like the fly fishing method, but frankly cant say it seems to make any difference one way or the other.

By the way Evan,I'd be delighted to see three fish competing for my patiently gifted freebies, never mind thirty!!

P..S. The floating linespray has the added benefit of making casting a bit slicker too. Allegedly.

By the way Evan, I'd be delighted to see three fish competing for my patiently gifted freebies, never mind thirty!!

If you're anywhere near Surrey then pm me and I can take you to a venue where there's just you, me, 5 or 6 acres of water and as many carp as you can catch fighting for every doggy bic - once it gets a trifle warmer.... pm me

(floaters THE method on this particular water and most matches needing over 200 lbs to win... and its not a commercial. Anything but)

PS. Not greasing just the last couple of inches would give the same effect I'm thinking of, it wouldn't be enough to form a sinking loop of any depth sufficient to either move the bait or disturb the fish. Will give it a go.

I just love floater fishing.... and combining that with stalking through reeds and pads, bliss. Roll on some warmer weather and sunshine !