Doing my bit...Or not!!

mark brailsford 2 · Jul 11, 2012

Well I might get some flak for this, but is it really worth me joining the Angling Trust?
I used to be in the ACA years ago but I checked out the membership fees and they seem expensive for what benefits you actually receive from joining.

barbelboi · Jul 11, 2012

The other way of looking at it is ‘what can I do for the ATr’ if enough anglers joined then their financial clout would certainly enable them to have a much bigger say in what is beneficial for anglers.
Jerry

bennygesserit · Jul 11, 2012

Or buy two rod licenses and support the EA which isn't a jobs for the boys , money grabbing publicity machine ?

Jeff Woodhouse · Jul 11, 2012

bennygesserit said:
Or buy two rod licenses and support the EA which isn't a jobs for the boys , money grabbing publicity machine ?

Benny, read that article I linked to.

Then again, don't bother.

I'm always been lying same as the Angling Trust, we always do, it's a problem with us....:wh

mg: No one wants to believe us because of it. BTW, it might rain tomorrow somewhere, on my life! What - don't believe me?

Then again, Pondy and his group are doing a really good job for angling as is the EA giving him permission to build his stupid hydro - with your two rod licence fees.

---------- Post added at 22:04 ---------- Previous post was at 22:02 ----------

mark brailsford 2 said:
I used to be in the ACA years ago but I checked out the membership fees and they seem expensive for what benefits you actually receive from joining.

Mark, a pound a week, just £1 per week, buys you a rod licence and membership of the Angling Trust. Who else is there to fight for your rights? Name one other organisation....... please?

bennygesserit · Jul 11, 2012

Jeff Woodhouse said:
Benny, read that article I linked to.

Then again, don't bother.

I'm always been lying same as the Angling Trust, we always do, it's a problem with us....:whmg: No one wants to believe us because of it. BTW, it might rain tomorrow somewhere, on my life! What - don't believe me?

Then again, Pondy and his group are doing a really good job for angling as is the EA giving him permission to build his stupid hydro - with your two rod licence fees.

---------- Post added at 22:04 ---------- Previous post was at 22:02 ----------

Mark, a pound a week, just £1 per week, buys you a rod licence and membership of the Angling Trust. Who else is there to fight for your rights? Name one other organisation....... please?

Yes I will read it Jeff

Terry D · Jul 12, 2012

Why do anglers think "what do I get out of it" when thinking of joining the AT. Anglers should join because the AT is the only body fighting for angling and angler's rights to fish. FULL STOP.
Nobody else is going to fight for you and especially, if you don't fund them financially in some form or another. Get over it and cough up if you want to go fishing, both now and in the future.

Eric Edwards · Jul 12, 2012

bennygesserit said:
Or buy two rod licenses and support the EA which isn't a jobs for the boys , money grabbing publicity machine ?

That's a disgraceful remark. The Angling Trust are the only representation you have at national level. They are currently carrying out the national angling survey - gathering information that will impact on the quality of angling for years to come, they are the lead body in developing coaches and coaching, getting youngsters involved in the sport, only yesterday, when Midlands Today screened a misleading article on swans and lead poisoning the AT were straight onto it.
The AT had troubles when they were first formed but they are steadily overcoming them and in my view they are doing a great job. They are lobbying parliament and taking action over such things as predation, poaching, water abstraction, hydro power schemes, pollution.

Try investigating what the AT are doing before your next throwaway comment.

bennygesserit · Jul 12, 2012

Eric Edwards said:
That's a disgraceful remark. The Angling Trust are the only representation you have at national level. They are currently carrying out the national angling survey - gathering information that will impact on the quality of angling for years to come, they are the lead body in developing coaches and coaching, getting youngsters involved in the sport, only yesterday, when Midlands Today screened a misleading article on swans and lead poisoning the AT were straight onto it.
The AT had troubles when they were first formed but they are steadily overcoming them and in my view they are doing a great job. They are lobbying parliament and taking action over such things as predation, poaching, water abstraction, hydro power schemes, pollution.

Try investigating what the AT are doing before your next throwaway comment.

Are the salaries that the ATr pay themselves published ? Try investigating what the ATr are really doing before your next comment ? What does the money go on ? Why is the membership so low ? Don't give me the same old apathy nonsense , the vast majority are not memebers for soem reason , one of which might be apathy or it might be that they see no need for the AT or that they disagree with their views on otters for instance or they see a lot of the ATr as a con , as a job creation scheme and would raher keep their money to themselves.

---------- Post added at 09:27 ---------- Previous post was at 09:19 ----------

Aaah I see one of their proposals - "what we would do if we had more money" is to start making television programmes , I wonder who would be staring in those then ?

Eric Edwards · Jul 12, 2012

I think the membership is so low because there are too many people carping from the sidelines instead of doing things to get involved and help out. Too many who want to find a downside and ignore the upsides, too many who are looking for an excuse not to put their hand in their pocket and support our sport.
I'm a member and I get contacted by the ATr maybe three or four times a week either informing me of what the trust is doing, asking for my help as a coach or a member or alerting me to a problem that needs member action. I was contacted by the ATr three times yesterday alone and I'm in no doubt that the organisation is working hard for me.

The comment about otters is daft. There's a wide range of differing opinion within angling and it doesn't matter what stance the ATr takes someone is going to dissatisfied with it.

Salaries? What's yours? Is it published?

bennygesserit · Jul 12, 2012

Eric Edwards said:
I think the membership is so low because there are too many people carping from the sidelines instead of doing things to get involved and help out. Too many who want to find a downside and ignore the upsides, too many who are looking for an excuse not to put their hand in their pocket and support our sport.
I'm a member and I get contacted by the ATr maybe three or four times a week either informing me of what the trust is doing, asking for my help as a coach or a member or alerting me to a problem that needs member action. I was contacted by the ATr three times yesterday alone and I'm in no doubt that the organisation is working hard for me.

The comment about otters is daft. There's a wide range of differing opinion within angling and it doesn't matter what stance the ATr takes someone is going to dissatisfied with it.

Salaries? What's yours? Is it published?

Its not a very cogent argument to say my point about otters is daft , neither the point that simply saying people who don't want to join because they don't want to get involved, with that point you have simply repeated back what I said in my previous post ?

As for salaries my point was that if I joined the Trust then I would want to know where my money was going.

What would happen if everyone bought 2 licenses I believe that money goes directly to benefit the angling environment rather than pay someone to have a jolly while making a film , or claim business class travel expenses.

On the point of expenses do any of you who are exhorting us to join , in such an evangelical and frankly often insulting way , know how much of your money goes on that ?

geoffmaynard · Jul 12, 2012

It's always easy to find ways not to spend money but the ATr is the only game in town when it comes to protecting Angling from both pollution and other threats, and the Fish Legal service can put teeth behind the bark. If you think the ATr can be improved, then join them and lobby to improve it - though I think you'll be hard pushed to find anything which isn't already being addressed. They have all my support.

steph mckenzie · Jul 12, 2012

You're Damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.

If the angling Bodies signed up to form one Angling Body then i am sure a lot more anglers would join.

I think the problem really lies in the fact that a lot of Anglers don't really believe that joining the Angling Trust would make any difference anyway.

Anglers still don't buy Rod Licenses and it's Law in England and Wales, and it still gets ignored.

It's a shame that Angling is viewed in this way by the Majority of Anglers, and i'm sorry, but, telling them that they're silly or ignorant isn't winning over any friends.

Before anyone asks i haven't got a Rod License and i haven't had one for the past 2 years (this is due to ill health) and not because i'm a poacher :lol:
I was a member of the Angling Trust but i didn't renew this time around as i don't feel that they have made any real strides or progress since they started, Yes, faces have come and gone but i don't see any real big cogs turning that makes me want to think that while my finances are really low that i want to part with them (on a personal level).

I don't disagree with anyone wanting to be a part of it, or wanting to encourage others to do so, just at this moment in time it isn't for me.

I would like for the people behind the Angling Trust to all be Volunteers and that the Legal Fees are where the costs are incurred, whether that be lobbying parliament or taking legal action against offenders.

sam vimes · Jul 12, 2012

I'm quite happy for any club or syndicate that I may be part of to spend a proportion of the money I contribute to them to be spent of ATr membership. I can see a real and genuine benefit in that. As for individual membership, I see no tangible benefit whatsoever. People berating me for saying that actually make me less inclined to join and more inclined to dig my heels in and not join.

I would suggest that ATr should look to doing something along similar lines to BASc. Each of their members, as part of their membership, gets fairly extensive liability insurance for recreational shooting activities. A tangible benefit to joining that goes that bit further than "we are the only voice you have". If there's a real individual benefit to joining then people might stomach the odd issue that they don't particularly agree with. If joining is simply a matter of principle that they have to pay for, they will not do so if they have a different opinion to the "party line".

peter crabtree · Jul 12, 2012

Sam, you get public liability insurance when you join the Angling trust. Up to £5m I believe....

cg74 · Jul 12, 2012

sam vimes said:
I'm quite happy for any club or syndicate that I may be part of to spend a proportion of the money I contribute to them to be spent of ATr membership. I can see a real and genuine benefit in that. As for individual membership, I see no tangible benefit whatsoever. People berating me for saying that actually make me less inclined to join and more inclined to dig my heels in and not join.

Ditto.

peter crabtree said:
Sam, you get public liability insurance when you join the Angling trust. Up to £5m I believe....

And my house insurance gives me £2.5m of cover, which I'm quite sure I'll need.

Eric Edwards said:
I think the membership is so low because there are too many people carping from the sidelines instead of doing things to get involved and help out. Too many who want to find a downside and ignore the upsides, too many who are looking for an excuse not to put their hand in their pocket and support our sport.
I'm a member and I get contacted by the ATr maybe three or four times a week either informing me of what the trust is doing, asking for my help as a coach or a member or alerting me to a problem that needs member action. I was contacted by the ATr three times yesterday alone and I'm in no doubt that the organisation is working hard for me.

The comment about otters is daft. There's a wide range of differing opinion within angling and it doesn't matter what stance the ATr takes someone is going to dissatisfied with it.

Salaries? What's yours? Is it published?

Well what exactly are/will the ATr do to help my local rivers - Cherwell; are they knocking out an agreement with BW's (now the Canal and River Trust) to limit the amount of water abstracted from the river, to be used for leisure craft on the Oxford canal......... No of course they're not, they're patting themselves on the back because Boddington res is full of water, so is fishing better.

As for salaries - So you/they want me to contribute and not know where my money goes - How naive you are?
I think it's what gets labelled transparency.......!

Terry D said:
Why do anglers think "what do I get out of it" when thinking of joining the AT. Anglers should join because the AT is the only body fighting for angling and angler's rights to fish. FULL STOP.
Nobody else is going to fight for you and especially, if you don't fund them financially in some form or another. Get over it and cough up if you want to go fishing, both now and in the future.

What a load of condescending rot. I think the why's etc are already covered within this post.

Jeff Woodhouse · Jul 12, 2012

mark brailsford 2 said:
I checked out the membership fees and they seem expensive for what benefits you actually receive from joining

You must read my latest post, Mark. "Ask not what the Angling Trust can do for you, but what you can do for the Angling Trust."

OR -

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." - Spock, Star Trek - The Wrath of Khan

sam vimes · Jul 12, 2012

peter crabtree said:
Sam, you get public liability insurance when you join the Angling trust. Up to £5m I believe....

Great, it's a start but, unlike shooting, I don't particularly see any benefit in public liability insurance for fishing. I suspect that offering something else might help.

bennygesserit · Jul 12, 2012

Is the Angling Trust a cult ? The people in it certainly seem evangelical , why should I join ? "cos you SHOULD"

Maybe that survey is really a free personality test

steph mckenzie · Jul 13, 2012

I think the point about "Joining the Angling Trust" that most will agree about, is, The more Members, the more say as an angling Community we will have when we don't agree with issues that we feel will affect our fishing, or our rights as fishermen/fisherwomen.

The point that most anglers make though is -: They don't personally feel that it is actually of any benefit to them and it seems expensive for what they get out of it on a personal level.
Yes, i know some say it's not what they can do for you but what you can do for them ... Sorry, but, it has to be what we get out of it, just as much as what we put in to it, or, you may as well just give them the money and not be a member. It would apply to the same thing then.

I was very sceptical in the beginning about joing the ATr, and, i also got called a lot of names and accused of being a lot of things for not agreeing, so i looked in to it, decided to join and give it a go. The first year was a compete shambles and what with accusations and people leaving the ATr new bigger names in the world of fishing came in, i gave them a go, but, i have seen little or nothing change or look like it will change any time soon, in fact the only change i have seen is an increase in membership fees.

It is too easy for people, me included to say ... i tell you what, prove to us you can actually do what you say you can do and then we will join, rather than saying, join us and we'll do this for you.

Dave Smith · Jul 13, 2012

The RSPB has:

Over a million members, including over 195,000 youth members.
The invaluable support of almost 18,000 volunteers.
Resources available for charitable purposes in 2010 was £94.7 million.
200 nature reserves covering almost 130,000 hectares, home to 80% of our rarest or most threatened bird species.
A UK headquarters, three national offices and nine regional offices.
A local network of 175 local groups and more than 110 youth groups.

And they have some major clout with the policy makers, have the finances to buy land etc 130,000 hectares they own. some of which have lakes etc, some of which "we" used to be able to fish and now can't (I know there is some working going on at a local level in some instances to gain limited access).

BASC has;

129,000 members
There are currently 110 people working for BASC across the country.
A strong and unified voice for shooting
All party backing for shooting
Balanced comment in the media
Continued opportunity to go shooting

Angling Trust;

Around 30,000 members
Fight against Pollution, Predation and Poaching
Get more fish in rivers, lakes and the sea
Make sure rod licence money is spent on fishing
Increase angling coaching and education
Fight against restricted angler access and anti-angling campaigns
Support environmental campaigning for anglers and fishing

And we wonder why we get the shitty end of the stick?
Fact is that very little licence money goes to fishing, AT fight for more of this to go back into the sport which pays for the EA.

Read any book on bird watching and they all tell you that all birders are members of the RSPB - or should be, because the RSPB will protect their hobby. Angling Trust is the only organisation that will, does fight for your sport. But without money what chance does it have? AT has the potential to be bigger than the RSPB which will give it massive clout with the policy makers. I really don't care how much they pay the leaders of the trust, if we want the best leading OUR organisation we got to pay for it. Out of interest Mike Heylin works tirelessly for the trust - for expenses. The regional officers are in the main paid for by Sport England (via grants) (if i remember correctly - a good friend of mine is one).

50p a week.

JOIN THE AT HERE

Fact is it's easy to complain about AT not doing what you want them to, but without the resource i.e. your membership fees.

Thing it was somebody from the Countryside Alliance who said that Anglers Where a waste of space... because the majority of us wont support ourselves... got a point hadn't he!

Doing my bit...Or not!!

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