Rods...does it pay to pay?

I am going to throw this into the pot for a stir.
Is there really such a thing as a cheap rod in performance? We can say perhaps the rings could be cheap and the handle and reel seat a bit tacky but when was the last time you saw a carp rod snap playing a fish. We can talk about actions of the rods and get into the technical detail of things but does this ‘Really’ make that much difference when a 2.5lb TC rod of £30 to a £200 one when playing that 20lb carp on your local lake?

I think there is a point beyond which you dont get much more for your money. The difference between the real budget end and top of the range is much wider than that between mid & top. I personally wouldn't use real budget end stuff because I find it unpleasant to use....most of my rods are mid price range or top/middle and they seem to perform as well as the top range stuff or as near as dammit...certainly not enough to warrant paying twice as much unless its a very,very specialised piece of kit or a bit of sheer indulgence.

And TBH if you cannot afford/justify top of the range gear it really doesn't matter how much better it is than what you can afford. There are good & bad in all price ranges....the art is finding the best performer/value in the range you can afford that will do the job you want it to do & being happy with it.

i tend to think that with Carp rods that it is not really a huge issue but the lower TC you go i think it makes more of a difference as in float rods. the tip action comes into play with all of them but much more so with say a float rod.

i bought a Leeda rod 15 years back, a carp rod of 2.5TC and it has still the rings and seat are still perfect. it cost me £15. i have had some decent fights on it too.
I still have my 2.75TC shimano Powerloop. It was a middle of the range shimano and no problems there it was £30 i think. In fact i have tried looking for a powerloop since but can only get hold of hyperloops.

There are a few factors at play. The law of diminishing returns certainly applies. Paying double the money doesn't get you twice the rod. Then you can look to the case where cheap doesn't mean nasty any longer, or at least nothing like it did twenty years ago.
However, a rod not snapping in use isn't a true measure of how good a rod is. Many cheap rods are actually less likely to snap, even under abuse, than a top quality rod.

You then need to consider whether the user can actually tell or appreciate the differences between a budget rod and a top end rod. Many can't, and that's fine, makes it a cheaper experience for them. This is equally applicable to all sorts of gear, from hi-fi to PCs.

Another thing to be aware of is the brand premium. There's no doubt in my mind that broadly similar performing items can be had for quite different prices, depending on the logo on the side. However, as before, that's no different from any other branded consumer item.

Longevity also comes into the equation. I'm content that, when buying higher end kit, it generally lasts longer. Until fairly recently, the vast bulk of my gear was good stuff of fifteen to twenty year vintage. Most of it was still going strong and there was no need to change, only a desire to. Most of the old stuff (Daiwa match rods and the like) went to a mate that tends to buy at the lower end of the market. He was stunned at just how good seemingly old kit was compared to budget modern stuff. There's also the fact that such gear, despite being so old, still retains a fair amount of its initial value. That isn't going to happen with budget gear. I'd also suggest that many folks operating at the budget end of the market actually end up spending far more on gear than those spending big every ten years or more.

It's also worth considering future desireability and value. Rods I paid around £120-150 for in the early nineties are still worth £50-100 (provided they are kept in decent condition). A rod you pay £50-75 for now is going to be worth £25-50 before you even use it and even less by the time it's a year old or used. A rod you pay £30 for now is likely to be all but unsaleable the instant you buy it.

The bottom line is this, you pay your money and take your chance.

I usually buy quite good quality only because I know that if selling on I will get a better return for it however I don’t think anywhere near as much as you used to because the cheaper end of the market is much better than it used to be. Out of all the kit an angler has apart from possibly a match angler the rod has become the least important over the years. Usually if it’s a brand name that’s recognisable then if its only £20 most will take it. It’s not the price that sells a rod first it’s the brand and then the cost. Also if you are using it quite a bit as in float fishing or trotting then it has to feel better but stuck behind two buzz bars...Not really.
It’s quite amazing that anglers take more notice of their reels now than their rods after all you could use a coke tin as a reel...LOL...if you get my point.
It’s the hooks and line that is or should be the most important but I wonder how many out there are fishing as I type with a £200 Reel and £200 rod on cheap line and cheap blunt hooks...

dave1 said:

It’s the hooks and line that is or should be the most important but I wonder how many out there are fishing as I type with a £200 Reel and £200 rod on cheap line and cheap blunt hooks...

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Only the dafties that think fishing is all about showing how much money they have. However, I suspect you do folks a disservice, there aren't that many that are daft enough to buy expensive rods/reels only to scrimp on hooks and line. There are certainly plenty that only buy top end gear, but, that usually extends to everything they buy, not just the visible stuff.
Many will pay through the nose for their *insert brand name here* cap/scissors/torch/bucket etc etc.

Some of the real cheap stuff is very basic, but it is functional.

My philosohy is simple, as long as I can afford decent kit then I will buy it and enjoy it. If times were tougher, then of course I would manage my expectations accordingly.

I genuinely believe that in most things, the price you pay reflects (to some degree) the quality you receive. Nobody will convince me that a £15.99 rod will have the all round performance of a £250 rod.

I will always try to buy the best rod/s that I can afford for any given method of angling that feel right to me. Others have already covered most of the thread’s topic but the bottom line (no pun intended) , IMO, is that the only thing the fish sees is your end tackle – anything else only makes it an easier/more pleasurable way of casting to, hooking (unless bolt rigging) and landing the fish.
Jerry

There are some bargains out there and some surprises, rods that are inexpensive behaving as well as those costing the earth. It's best to explore the market fully to see what's around before committing to buy, get to feel them in a dealers if possible.

sam vimes said:

Only the dafties that think fishing is all about showing how much money they have. However, I suspect you do folks a disservice, there aren't that many that are daft enough to buy expensive rods/reels only to scrimp on hooks and line. There are certainly plenty that only buy top end gear, but, that usually extends to everything they buy, not just the visible stuff.
Many will pay through the nose for their *insert brand name here* cap/scissors/torch/bucket etc etc.

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I do nobody a disservice i only say as i see it having been a bailiff for many years on the bank.And amongst the young anglers there are not plenty but more than you think sam that are daft enough to do it

dave1 said:

I do nobody a disservice i only say as i see it having been a bailiff for many years on the bank.And amongst the young anglers there are not plenty but more than you think sam that are daft enough to do it

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God knows what type of club/venue you bailiff for, because that doesn't match with my experiences. There are dipsticks out there, but not that many, at least not where I fish.

you can buy all the rods and reels in the world, but you cannot buy knowledge and experience, mid range gear, and a fishing brain will see you right any time.

Quality does last. I have just bought a new float rod as the ferrules have worn down on my Normark 13ft . I am trying to work out how old it is. It was a first generation carbon..was that late 70s or early 80s?

The Torrix 1.75lb 11 Foot Barbel rod gets pretty good feedback on the web and I am very tempted indeed ..... its around £ 160 ish Just finding it hard to justify to myself that I would notice that much difference from the 1.75lb Greys Prodigy rod I currently have.

What do ya reckon ?

Steve Ruff said:

The Torrix 1.75lb 11 Foot Barbel rod gets pretty good feedback on the web and I am very tempted indeed ..... its around £ 160 ish Just finding it hard to justify to myself that I would notice that much difference from the 1.75lb Greys Prodigy rod I currently have.

What do ya reckon ?

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I think you'll notice quite a difference. Mainly because they have quite different actions. Whether you'll like one over the other is a matter of taste.

Cheers Sam.

The Prodigy is a nice rod but so far as I understand the Torrix has a more through action / sensitive tip - which is just what I am after.

Think I will cut out buying fishing mags for a while / Costa coffee's and croissants at lunchtime in the City and that should balance my conscience.


Steve

I have both mentioned rods. The prodigy I bought in it's 3 piece version some years ago as a travel rod and IMO it's a pretty good rod. The Harrison, again IMO, is a far better rod and would be first choice every time.
Jerry

Nice one - guess thats sorted then.

Hopefully next years trip to the River Severn will see me with a Torrix in my rod bag - for the money it seems a cracking buy.

Thanks again.


Steve

barbelboi said:

I have both mentioned rods. The prodigy I bought in it's 3 piece version some years ago as a travel rod and IMO it's a pretty good rod. The Harrison, again IMO, is a far better rod and would be first choice every time.
Jerry

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Jerry,im interested in a torrix,but in its 1.5lb t.c. 11ft version,but ive never seen one so am put off,my concern is heightened by the fact that i have a 11ft 1.5lb 'sulis',which seems exceptionally soft for such a test curve rod,is it a Harrison thing that rods are softer in action?Just recently Fosters of Birmingham(Bob)was good enough to send me a 4 piece Harrison Avon blank to look at,that was supposed to be 1.5lb t.c. that felt like a poker,which i cant use as i get bouts of tennis elbow if the rods too powerful(glad i dont carp fish,lol).

I tend to buy the best I can afford but when I came back to fishing I was going to struggle buying the quality tackle I had before, but then I had a little bit of luck! I received a big Christmas bonus from work, sold my Iphone after an upgrade, got another £750 from work for the companies bi-centennial and then had a compensation windfall of £1300 and so I was able to re-build my tackle collection to the standard I had a few years ago, and not have to go down the budget route.
What I am saying is that if I had not been lucky and bought budget gear I would have regretted it in the long term as I just get so much pleasure from using top end gear and also as Sam stated, you have a good chance of a decent re-sale price if or when you decide too.
Give me a Preston Excel over a DC Advent (or what ever they call then now) any day